I’m extremely anti-rape culture, in case you haven’t noticed. Because politicians have control over what happens to me and everyone we know (well, with the semi-exception of really, really rich people), I hold them to a higher standard. Whereas when an acquaintance makes a tasteless rape joke (HA, ASSAULT, SO GOOFY!), I brush it off. I may point out that they’re perpetuating a sexist environment that feels uncomfortable to which they’ll moan like a three-year-old about me being a wet blanket, but it’s easy to brush it off.
However. When a politician, a lawmaker, somebody who affects our government, makes a callous statement about rape, I do not brush it off. It would be irresponsible to do so as a human being and a citizen. So, to Roger Rivard: you, sir, are an ass.
For some bizarre reason, State Representative of Wisconsin Roger Rivard (R) told the Chetek Alert newpaper last December some of his fathers words of advice. According to ThinkProgress:
He told the Journal Sentinel that his father had advised him not to have premarital sex, and he took that seriously.“He also told me one thing, ‘If you do (have premarital sex), just remember, consensual sex can turn into rape in an awful hurry,’ ” Rivard said. “Because all of a sudden a young lady gets pregnant and the parents are madder than a wet hen and she’s not going to say, ‘Oh, yeah, I was part of the program.’ All that she has to say or the parents have to say is it was rape because she’s underage. And he just said, ‘Remember, Roger, if you go down that road, some girls,’ he said, ‘they rape so easy.’
“What the whole genesis of it was, it was advice to me, telling me, ‘If you’re going to go down that road, you may have consensual sex that night and then the next morning it may be rape.’ So the way he said it was, ‘Just remember, Roger, some girls, they rape so easy. It may be rape the next morning.’
“So it’s been kind of taken out of context.”
Yeah, uh, women are just running around, clammering to lie about being raped because we regret it. That’s a really good message to send! I’m not saying that people don’t ever lie about crimes, but considering rape is underreported, I hardly think that it’s commonplace nor worthy of “advice” from a parent to child. Yes, a teensy percentage of all people have lied about all sorts of crimes, from abuse to robbery to identity theft to assault. But how often do parents run around saying, “Don’t borrow your friends clothes ever! If you do, they’ll probably call the cops on you and tell everyone you robbed them. Some friends, they rob so easy!”
Up until this incident came out, Paul Ryan was endorsing Rivard. Despite those comments being stated in December and Ryan endorsing Rivard in August, he withdrew his endorsement upon the news of Rivard’s statements being spread. In high school, if Person A were friends with Person B despite not realizing that Person A had punched a little kid and was secretly racist, I wouldn’t blame Person A for not realizing it (provided he or she withdrew their friendship because, seriously, who wouldn’t?). But because, again, I hold politicians to a higher standard, I would simply assume somebody on Paul Ryan’s staff would’ve researched a person they were endorsing. They’re adults, they have a multitude of resources to do so.
I don’t forgive the statement as being from a “past generation” that “didn’t know any better,” as people often do with idiocy from the elderly. Sorry, but I refuse to accept an excuse of “well, they were basically toddlers despite being adults.” I don’t forgive past racism, I don’t forgive past sexism nor any other type of discrimination simply based on a “different time.” I’ve had people try and convince me, but it’s futile because I believe people are responsible for their statements, actions and (frequently) impact. I believe in not progressing negative ideas and stereotypes about other human beings; the fact that Roger Rivard thought that, for even a second, it was okay to publicly repeat these words and potentially progress them as ideas (then defend them) is absurd.
Whether it’s pure anti-woman, idiotic inaccuracies spewing from Todd Akin or any form of “forcible rape” laws or this guy, I don’t think it’s all right for us young women, who certainly have voices worth hearing, to not speak up about these statements. Rape apologists need to be quickly funneled out of anywhere they can make decisions that impact us or anybody else. I would apologize for being so angry, but I can’t, because if I weren’t angry about this… I wouldn’t be staying true to my beliefs.
Lovelies, what do you think about this incident and Rivard’s statements?
guest
Is it really that hard for people to call to attention the importance of encouraging women (and men) to report actual rapes, while simultaneously encouraging due process so that innocent boys and men (and by extension, girls and women) don’t get falsely accused of rape? I fail to see how it’s anti-woman to point out that *gasp* there are women who lie any more than it is anti-male to encourage women to report rapes instead of staying silent.
This is the problem with the hyper-fanaticism associated with battling this so-called “rape culture”. In the attempt to protect women, it has no qualms about collateral damage. False rape IS a serious issue, too. Rather than picking one gender over another (which ignores the fact that women also sexually assault men), why not promote a culture that balances compassion and healing with skepticism and due process to maximize healing for the victims and minimize false accusations?
Nahhhh that would be too difficult. Let’s just indict the ones with penises instead, much simpler that way.
guest
I wholeheartedly agree with quantumstorm. From my experience in college, I think the people who cry wolf are greater in number than those who have actually been the victim of an unwarranted crime.
guest
I feel like “real” canonical rapes go unnoticed because those victims are afraid to speak up.
Whereas those who do speak up, typically tends to be those who enjoy drama, revenge, etc. and are not those people who are actual victims.
sunflower / 264 posts
I am a woman, and I feel no obligation to be angry about this. Just because I am a woman doesn’t mean I can’t see the slight truth in all these statements and keep an objective viewpoint and level head, weighing exactly what is being said. Unfortunately, Q (above) is right. This is something that happens, and I don’t blame young men for catching wind of it and being hesitant to have sex with a woman they barely know in case it could happen. That isn’t against women who have been raped, and it’s not belittling the seriousness of rape–it is drawing attention to people who lie about rape. That in itself does not belittle rape.
guest
And honestly, people make tasteless jokes about everything that’s tasteless, ethnicity, race, money, sex, gender, rape, obesity, drug use, religion, EVERYTHING…
I don’t think he made a callous statement about rape, he was just telling his son not to have premarital sex because if your’e having sex with someone you don’t know or have no commitment/connection to, a lot of people are exploitative and can ruin your life without the slightest sense of guilt. While I don’t agree that this is necessarily true, as I’ve known people who were raped by people they had a connection to, it’s just generic advice.
I guess I just don’t like it when people take people’s statements out of context and condemn them for it, when we all say stupid things every single day that could potentially hurt someone out there if we were popular enough to have people hang on every word.
Rape is wrong. To that extent I agree with you. But I think you’re defending your cause in a very ineffective and detrimental way – as a woman, I think your statements do us more harm than good.
guest
I don’t really see the problem with what he said…
guest
It’s kind of bizarre that we have no qualms at all believing that men rape, but we find it disgusting for someone to even suggest that women lie.
You would think feminists would understand such a thing to be patriarchal… As they have been trying to get everyone to realize that women are on an equal level as men. And yet they still cling to the notion that women are more moral than men are; a notion that was the driving force of that evil patriarchal thing called ‘chivalry’ that feminists despise so much.
This is chivalry disguised as progressivism. As is most of feminism.
guest
@AmorVomnia7@xanga - Feminist: “We’re as good as any man! Oh, and men are scum!”
#oops
guest
“the fact that Roger Rivard thought that, for even a second, it was okay to publicly repeat these words and potentially progress them as ideas (then defend them) is absurd.”
I’m going to try to be nice here, but I’ll warn you now, I won’t succeed.
OP, you’re a moron. You’re a reactive, unthinking, and ignorantly biased moron.
(How did I do?)
I’ve got news for you… what Rivard’s father said is true. This DOES happen. If you think that it’s his position that no one ever actually gets raped, (which is your insinuation, at it’s core, let’s face it) you did the very thing he had to “defend” his father’s words against, you took them out of context. What his father was actually saying is that people should be very cautious when they decide to sleep with someone, because that someone could wake up feeling regret the next morning, and instead of dealing with the consequences of their decisions, they decide it’s easier to play the victim, and call rape, when they know damn well the act was consensual. See, if they are the victim, then they aren’t the slut that they wake up feeling like. IT DOES HAPPEN. Not to mention there are the people that decide to GO INTO the sex act with ulterior motives from the start.
SEE: DUKE LACROSSE TEAM
The irony of all of this is that you’re the one guilty of the very narrow-minded and biased thinking that you’re accusing Rivard of. (Not to mention, you’re calling Rivard an ass for something he didn’t even say, he was quoting someone else)
I know this may come as a shock to you, but the fact that there genuinely are women who’ve been raped does not mean there aren’t women who have claimed falsely that they were raped, for any number of reasons, and someone calling attention to that fact is NOT the same thing as them saying that women don’t actually get raped ever.
Gah, you people make me sick. When did we get so ignorant in this country?!
Oh, and if any of you think my comment was too harsh, perhaps a little too mean, I’d invite you to re-read the OP’s post, regarding someone she doesn’t know personally, and notice how she spoke about him with nothing more than a few words she read to go on.
You get what you give.
guest
@QuantumStorm@xanga - “I fail to see how it’s anti-woman to point out that *gasp* there are women who lie any more than it is anti-male to encourage women to report rapes instead of staying silent. “
The first is an unfounded accusation of a theoretical future bad act (guilty until proven innocent?). The last is anti-crime, not anti-male.
It’s bad enough that many women are victimized not only by their attacker, but also by the justice system. Now you want the wink-and-nod to go ahead and label them all criminals (making false crime reports is a crime, after all) prior to the act, too.
Sounds legit. :/
guest
@accumulations@xanga - From your experience? Please, elaborate on this vast experience and how it equates to “the people who cry wolf are greater in number than those who have actually been the victim of an unwarranted crime. “
guest
@Jenny_Wren@xanga - FBI reports consistently put the number of “unfounded” rape accusations around 8%.However, “unfounded” is not synonymous with “false” allegation.The largest study, published in 2005, was based on 2,643 sexual assault cases and found 3% of false reports. Do you consider 3% to be such large number that we must teach boys to distrust all women they may consider having sex with? Does that justify labeling women as liars and being overly skeptical of every report of rape?
guest
I think he could have worded it better than “some girls, they rape so easy” or he could have summed up what his father said better than some girls, they rape so easy. There is nothing wrong with his father’s advice. Statutory rape laws are harsh, but they have good intentions. They are especially harsh in states where the age of consent is still lower than 18. This means a 16 year can get convicted of raping a 14 year old if the age of consent is 16. There are women who lie because they wake up and regret what they have done. It happens more often than not. It is kind of like how some girls will scream sexual harassment just because a guy they are not attracted to pays any amount of attention to them, even just saying hello. If you don’t know any women like that, consider yourself lucky. Stating that women lie about being rape in no shape of form invalidates rape.
This is a case of a politician, who is human, not thinking before he spoke. We can’t hold certain people to different standards, when we do, it means we really don’t have any standards at all. It’s not like he said “some girls, they rape so easy. you don’t even have to waste your money on roofies or even bother with a knife or gun. they just give up the fight” He meant that if you are going to have premarital sex, at any moment, a girl can change her mind, and/or decide that she didn’t really consent after all the next day. My son will be given the same advice.
I am a survivor of rape and I didn’t find this statement, when put in context, offensive. I think the man sounds like a bumbling idiot, but then I don’t even know the context in which this statement was made. I serious thought this was going to be another legitimate rape type thing. I am actually glad that it wasn’t.
guest
@theKisSilent@xanga - Reading comprehension is a wonderful thing. I suggest you try employing it sometime.
“Now you want the wink-and-nod to go ahead and label them all criminals (making false crime reports is a crime, after all) prior to the act, too.
Sounds legit. :/”
How is calling for due process “labeling” all of the women criminals? Or do you believe we should just label a person accused of rape as guilty until proven innocent?
Do what Winnie the Pooh does often and think think think think think. Highlighting the existence of fraudsters doesn’t equate with subverting due process or generalizing against all plaintiffs.
sunflower / 264 posts
@theKisSilent@xanga - I think it justifies men being skeptical of women they don’t know at all when it comes to having sex with them, yes.
guest
@QuantumStorm@xanga - “Reading comprehension is a wonderful thing. I suggest you try employing it sometime. “
#1 Fu** you. Common tactic, insulting a dissenter’s intelligence. What was it, the last line or the fact that I spoke to you without first being spoken to? Don’t get your manhood all in an uproar, I have a legitimate argument.#2 “How is calling for due process “labeling” all of the women criminals?” I didn’t say it was. I was referring to your defense of and agreement with the statement that “some girls rape easy” made implicit by your statement “I fail to see how it’s anti-woman to point out that *gasp* there are women who lie …” #3 “Or do believe we should just label a person accused of rape as guilty until proven innocent?” Don’t you wish that was the case? No, I don’t think anybody is guilty until proven innocent. And, even though I know it isn’t the case, that statement almost sounds like you think there are only two options: either victims are guilty OR the accused are guilty. There is that pesky other option, INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY.
guest
@Jenny_Wren@xanga - I agree with that statement. What I’m disagreeing with is the general consensus, including it almost seemed yours, that false reports happen more often than not. You know, I get that if you have 20 girlfriends and 11 of them made false accusations of rape, you might think it happens more often than not. What you (not you, per se, the collective you) need to be thinking about is “What kind of f’ed up friends am I attracting?” It’s this false belief that the liars outnumber the “legitimate” victims that creates the environment to allow a victim to be further victimized by the justice system.
guest
@theKisSilent@xanga - “Don’t get your manhood all in an uproar, I have a legitimate argument.”
Common tactic: Assuming my manhood is somehow threatened by your pitiful excuse of an argument. Why is my manhood even relevant to this discussion? Or is your argument so devoid of cogency that you have to resort to such statements out of desperation?
Rest assured, when you actually HAVE a legitimate argument, I’ll take you more seriously than I am now.
“I was referring to your defense of and agreement with the statement that “some girls rape easy” made implicit by your statement “I fail to see how it’s anti-woman to point out that *gasp* there are women who lie …”"
I never said I agreed with the statement “some girls rape easy.” In fact I think that was rather tactless of him to put it that way. But the point he was making about how there are women who, rather than taking responsibility, will instead hide behind a false rape accusation, is a legitimate one. And that is something I think sexually active men should seriously consider before engaging in sexual activity with any woman they meet.
“There is that pesky other option, INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY. ”
And that is something I’ve been arguing here, which you conveniently brush aside when considering the falsely accused. When someone is accused of a crime, it is part of due process to assume they are INNOCENT until proven guilty. In other words, just because a woman makes a rape claim DOESN’T mean we should assume she is telling the truth, JUST AS WE DO WITH ALL OTHER CLAIMS OF CRIME. Otherwise the mere accusation of ANY crime would be sufficient to sentence a person. (Think about it – if we assume a woman is telling the truth whenever she cries “rape!” there would be no need for a trial – we’d simply lock the guy up, no questions asked. See what I mean?)
Again, do as the great Pooh would do and think think think think think.
guest
it’s great advice
some guys, they imprison so easy
sunflower / 264 posts
@theKisSilent@xanga - What I said wasn’t dependent on it being the case more often than not (“it” being that the rape victim might be lying). It was dependent on that fact that it does happen. I’m not trying to say that everyone who claims to be raped is lying most of the time–that’s not what I think. I think that *some* people do lie about it, and that men should be aware of that. They should be aware of it not so they can be afraid of women forever–it’s so they can be careful to avoid being in whatever situation would lend itself to making him vulnerable in this way, whatever judgments that might lead them to concerning sexual relations. I know that women aren’t all these horrible liars–I’m not. But *some* are. And it’s the type of lie that could ruin your reputation for life, even if you never saw jail time. It’s not bad to talk about this. It’s not bad to draw attention to this. And it doesn’t downplay rape or the suffering of rape victims.
The very fact that there are some who would do such a thing is enough for a guy to be cautious–certainly not enough though for the justice system to doubt rape victims, unless it’s proven to be the case.
guest
@QuantumStorm@xanga - I’m thinking the ratio of insults is inversely equivalent to the amount of shrinkage you are currently experiencing. For crying out loud, you “failed to see” and I gave you my point of view and now
I’m stupid?!
I said “implicit” – that you implied agreement by your statement that you fail to see etc.
I agree there have been liars. I agree every male that macs on underage girls should know this. I agree that it’s a risk for anybody to be accused of rape, but to admit you “fail to see” how it’s anti-woman to encourage all males to go into every encounter assuming women can’t be trusted to not make false accusations is an admission of ignorance that deserves a response. How do you feel about women assuming you’re a rapist when dealing with you?
As for the rest of your original comment, I neither agreed nor disagreed with your assessment that balance is needed. To clarify, my issue was with that one sentence “I fail to see etc.” Not even gonna’ go the “reading comprehension” route with you. It’s impossible to reason through all that elevated testosterone.
guest
@theKisSilent@xanga - “I’m thinking the ratio of insults is inversely equivalent to the amount of shrinkage you are currently experiencing.”
I’m turned on by intelligence, among other things, so if there is any flaccidity on my end it is probably a result of reading your comments.
“but to admit you “fail to see” how it’s anti-woman to encourage all males to go into every encounter assuming women can’t be trusted to not make false accusations is an admission of ignorance that deserves a response”
Oh? You think it’s wrong for guys to be skeptical about the women they encounter? That guys should just blindly fling themselves into every sexual encounter without giving it some forethought?
Maybe YOU can afford to be so shortsighted, but I can assure you, the rest of us don’t see it that way.
“How do you feel about women assuming you’re a rapist when dealing with you?”
It keeps me up at night. I can’t eat or sleep knowing that somewhere out there, there is an Andrea Dworkin wannabe that thinks such things about me. It’s horrible I tell you!
But here’s what I think – men and women should be cautious when dealing with each other, especially in sexual matters. For example, if I told one of my ladyfriends not to leave her drink unattended at a party, am I telling her to assume all men are rapists? I’d say that telling her such things is being prudent. Maybe you disagree, I don’t know.
“Not even gonna’ go the “reading comprehension” route with you. It’s impossible to reason through all that elevated testosterone.”
HULK SAYS OKAY GRRRAWRRRR
guest
@Jenny_Wren@xanga - “The very fact that there are some who would do such a thing is enough for a guy to be cautious–certainly not enough though for the justice system to doubt rape victims, unless it’s proven to be the case. “
Exactly. I agree.
Here’s the problem. As you can see from the comments here, the false idea that “it happens more often than not” spreads, and it becomes the impetus for pro-life legislation to make abortion illegal, even in the case of rape; to define rape as an act that cannot cause a female victim to become pregnant; to use a woman’s attire to determine her guilt in causing a man to lose control and be forced to penetrate her, thereby de-legitimizing her claim of rape … do you see what I mean? I am glad you don’t agree that it happens more often than not, and yes unfortunately it does happen … about 3% of the time. But look what that 3% has done. We can’t afford to have people believing it’s more than half.
Isn’t it amazing what 3% can do?
guest
@QuantumStorm@xanga - Being skeptical about some chick you just picked up in a bar is healthy. Being skeptical of every woman you know is anti-woman. I’m not saying you are, just saying …
See my last comment to Jenny_Wren. It’s concerning to me to what degree people will take this “skepticism” of women.
And let’s get real. It’s clear you gauge intelligence on whether or not a person agrees with you. I can see, and have seen, that you have some issues with women that lead you to feel like a potential victim – maybe an actual victim? I don’t know, I don’t read your blog – and to be skeptical of a lot of us. Whatever it is, I feel for ya’ but I’m not buying into the dumb assessment. “Shut up, you’re dumb” isn’t a winning argument.
guest
@theKisSilent@xanga - “Being skeptical about some chick you just picked up in a bar is healthy. Being skeptical of every woman you know is anti-woman. I’m not saying you are, just saying …”
Since no one is arguing that we should be skeptical of every woman we know, why waste text bringing this up? Or is this, like your pathetic manhood jibe and your “lets get real” BS that followed in your comment, just another distraction from your lack of coherence?
“See my last comment to Jenny_Wren. It’s concerning to me to what degree people will take this “skepticism” of women. ’
Taking skepticism to unhealthy levels is bad, but dismissing it altogether or implying that ANY level of skepticism is anti-(insert gender here) is just ridiculous.
guest
Well, his dad is right. That DOES happen. He was just giving his son advice, though maybe not wording it the best way.
I’m not offended by it.
guest
Quite possibly one of the worst worded statements ever.
guest
@QuantumStorm@xanga - “…implying that ANY level of skepticism is anti-(insert gender here) is just ridiculous.” And that’s the problem right there. The statements weren’t “some boys rape easy.” We’re talking about it being okay to say this at a time when women are, like, two supreme court justices away from losing control of our reproductive health, and how this mentality feeds into this momentum. You can’t relate. Yea, I believe it’s anti-woman even if it is your right to say so. You don’t live in a vacuum.
guest
wait, so you’re opposed to ryan because a guy he endorsed, past tense, had a father who told him to be careful about women he slept with in order to avoid false allegations of rape? wow, you make.. .no sense.
guest
@theKisSilent@xanga - “The statements weren’t “some boys rape easy.”"
It’s funny you mention that… here’s some food for thought, written by a woman who goes by the name of Typhonblue.
http://www.genderratic.com/p/836/manufacturing-female-victimhood-and-marginalizing-vulnerable-men/
“Yea, I believe it’s anti-woman even if it is your right to say so. You don’t live in a vacuum.”
WINNIE THE POOH, GET YOUR ASS OVER HERE, I HAVE A NEW RECRUIT FOR YOU
… in other words, if you think that ANY skepticism regarding rape claims is wrong, that just shows a lack of critical thinking on your end regarding due process and the concept of innocent until proven guilty… but given your abysmal track record for critical thinking in your arguments so far, I can’t say I’m surprised. Again, recall what I said earlier… I thought it was tactless of him to make such a statement. But again, there is NOTHING wrong with having some skepticism regarding this, as with ANY OTHER CRIME. Why single out rape as though it deserves a free pass on due process?
HULK GO EAT NOW GRRRRAWWWRRRR
guest
Lol the way he said it makes him sound uneducated. But I see his point. I agree with quantumstorm: don’t rape, don’t lie about raping/being raped = better world.
guest
@QuantumStorm@xanga - I made my point with my first comment. The rest has been a pissing contest. You made a comparison and admitted you could not see how the statement is anti-woman. I showed you the difference. If you need to go through life assuming your hook-ups are un-trustworthy, it may be a legitimate fear that they fall in that 3% that make false reports. It may also be a clue you need to get to know your hook-ups better before you, you know, hook up.
I’m done here, so have the last word.
guest
@theKisSilent@xanga - You showed no difference and instead whined on about my manhood, assumptions about my past and other irrelevancies that did nothing to support whatever the heck it was you were trying to say. In a nutshell… Your “point” in the first comment addressed something I never said, and you’ve been stupidly trying to distract from it since. I admitted that his statement as presented was tactless; in fact, had you ASKED me “what do you think of his statement?” instead of assuming I thought it was okay, you would have heard me say the same exact thing and we could have spared ourselves this pissing contest, where you revealed your dislike for due process when it comes to rape.
I maintain, however, that being skeptical of a rape allegation, as one would be with ANY OTHER CRIME, is reasonable. You obviously think rape deserves a free pass on due process, and I shudder to think what our world would be like if men were automatically sent to jail on the mere EXISTENCE of an accusation of rape, which seems to be the world you advocate.
Can I eat now? Pweeeeze?
guest
It was a ridiculously bad way to phrase it. But it’s not false.
Girls do lie about being raped, especially young scared girls who get caught and panic. Because of the way the system tends to work and how hard it is to prove, I do think the woman should always be believed and supported. At first. If she’s found to be lying, I do think she should be prosecuted. She effectively ruined a man’s life AND added to the stigma of reporting honest rapes.
I’ve been raped. Twice. But his statement really just doesn’t offend me.
guest
Wow. Some of the comments on this post made me laugh!!!! Rape is horrible, and I’m sure that women, like my mother and I, who have been savagely raped as children, don’t appreciate most of the comments here. Some people are so clueless and heartless.
guest
i think the only part of this statement I am annoyed at is the “some girls rape so easily” part…all else just seems like an awkward parent trying to give a bad sex talk. I mean I see what he means by the dangers of casual sex the whole age thing may turn to statutory rape etc. But still, why is he saying “some girls rape so easily” instead of it just leads to complications and you need to communicate with your partner…less catchy I know but first his version sounds extremely sexist and I don’t think the Republican party should risk saying anymore stupid shit about rape.
guest
@theKisSilent@xanga - I feel like 3% is enough to make someone think first. There were 92,400 reported rapes last year and I don’t know where you got your stats but I read that over 20% of reported rapes are false accusations. 25% of 92,400 reported rapes=23,100 false rapes. I feel like that is a significant enough number to warrant at least a warning to your soon-to-be sexually active son.
I don’t want to defend the statement, but his father may have known of several incidences where it did occur. He is from an older generation and when he reached bucking age, I think it might have been more common. Being a pregnant teenager was highly taboo back then and almost always the man’s fault. Granted, his verbiage was pretty damn revolting. I probably would’ve punched him in the face if I’d been there to hear it but based on his wording, it sounds like his message to his son wasn’t meant to hurt women as much as it was to try to protect his son from the predators, all 23,100 of them. A father who doesn’t want his son to get into trouble is not the worst thing in the world.
guest
@Erika_Steele@xanga - my thoughts exactly
peony / 1 posts
i see a lot of logical fallacies on the writers end
worst thing you can blame him is that his dad was super paranoid, although for some people (especially the ones in the spotlight) this just is the plain truth…
as a young good looking man who has a public face in his local but sizeable community but who prefers to be anonymous, that public face attracts the wrong kind of girls and pushes away the right kind of girls… that includes girls who its “okay” to have one night stands or other relations with
i have actually been called out for rape 2 times in my life, once by an ex who thought she could “destroy my life” by doing so, but backed off the moment i got lawyers into it (pfew!), and the second one was with a 17 year old that ive never even met… let alone had sex with
the problem is not that there are a lot of girls out there that do it, the problem is the amount of damage that 1 in a hundred girl could do by just “saying” stuff
guest
@Kuai_le1010@xanga - FBI reports consistently put the number of “unfounded” rape reports at 8%, but “unfounded” does not equate to false reporting (http://oregonsatf.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Position-Paper-False-Alleg3.pdf).
If you didn’t have a problem with the message, then why would you punch the man in the face? Because he didn’t word it nicely?
The problem I have with the statement, no matter how it’s worded, is that it leads to the belief that false rape reports happen so often that it warrants a general mistrust of all reports, which is damaging for all victims of rape because it leads to fear of reporting the crime and fear of participating in due process. It becomes a question of the accuser’s motives, past events, general character, etc. Many legitimate victims don’t realize the mental and emotional toll that reporting the crime will take on them and end up recanting, which is not the same as lying about the crime. Also, there are those in law enforcement who have rigid ideas about how a “real” rape victim behaves, reacts, and what evidence she can show to support her claim, and in the absence of such evidence they assume she’s lying and thus will conclude the report is unfounded or even false. This affects the statistics even more so than the inclusion of actual false reports.
Look, you want to be cautious? Great, do that, but being cautious should not begin and end at “women lie” and be supported by false ideas about how often that happens. All this concern about how many women tell the truth being supported by lies is inherently anti-woman.
guest
You know the Romney/Ryan ticket abhor fact checkers.
orchid / 103 posts
@Under_the_Ghillie@xanga - I hardly think that’s what she was saying. We all love men here at Lovelyish.
guest
It’s posts like these that make me wonder if most people are idiots or just most Lovelyish commenters. If you see nothing wrong with the comments made by this man, I suggest you take some sort of class. We really need to start telling our kids “don’t rape” in stead of “don’t let lying bitches get you down” or ” don’t get raped”.
Sam, you rock and your thoughts and opinions seem very well rounded and thought through.
guest
There are false rape charges. Its not all that rare https://www.ncjrs.gov/txtfiles/dnaevid.txt that link leads to a study of 28 men convicted or rape who served an average of 7 years in person each. In all of these case the men men were exonerated when DNA evidence latter proved they were innocent men. “FBI officials report that out of roughly 10,000 sexual assault cases
since 1989, about 2,000 tests have been inconclusive, about 2,000 tests
have excluded the primary suspect, and about 6,000 have “matched” or
included the primary suspect.”
That means over 30% were false charges Some girls do “rape easy” or as this man really said be careful guys some girls lie
guest
@Kim - honey, that comment wasn’t directed at the op, or lovelyish. I was candidly summing up the feminist position in general, pointing out a hypocrisy in the attitude I’ve noticed.
As if I were saying “Monday: it sucks, but it’s the only way to get to Friday”
Make sense?
sunflower / 264 posts
@emptyabyss@xanga - Why can’t we tell them not to lie about rape, *because* rape is very serious and no one should ever do it, let alone belittle the true victims by lying about it?
guest
@emptyabyss@xanga -
Can you tell me why we can’t just tell them all 3 things? I must have missed that class.
Lmfao, @ “take a class or something”
Can you also recommend a good self-help book for my anger management problems with dealings involving morons?
I’ll tell any sons I have to ‘ not rape’ when these numbers @trunthepaige@xanga - mentioned are no longer true. Until then, I won’t buy into the “women are always honest, men are all rapists” bullshit you got from the unicorn who brings you your worldview every morning at 10/9 central.
guest
ZOMG I’m going to hold Paul Ryan responsible for something his FORMER endorsee’s DAD said when endorsee was growing up that isn’t politically correct today, but actually has some basis in truth!
Yes, this makes sense. Or alternatively:How dare any father tell his son to be discriminate about the women he has sex with! Don’t they know they are more likely to rape us than we are to lie about it being consensual! If I did believe there was a liberal agenda, it would probably be trying to *make* women have sex anytime the physical desire asserted itself, and men whenever the woman who desired him wanted. Insinuating that anyone should ever not have sex, or wait to have sex, or be careful about WHO they sleep with, or that sex is superior when it involves mutual trust, respect, and commitment, seems to really piss the dems off.
guest
… Learn to read, avd understand rhetoric ppl
“some girls rape so easy” is not contextually translated as “some girls are easy to rape.” The proper rephrase, in context, is “some girls are quick to turn consensual sex into rape after the fact”
Damn. It isn’t that difficult…
guest
@Jenny_Wren@xanga - Honestly, if you are ever in a position where you think you specifically need to teach your child to not lie about being raped, you send that kid to therapy.
guest
@Under_the_Ghillie@xanga - Oh my god, not you again. Seriously, why do you need so much for me to validate your bigoted opinions?
sunflower / 264 posts
@emptyabyss@xanga - Yeah, I agree. But wouldn’t that also go with having to tell a kid you shouldn’t rape?
I get what you’re saying, though. Both are obviousy morally abhorrent. This guy, however poorly-worded, was trying to say that lying about it is bad, and to watch out for those who might lie about it. And it is bad. Just as rape is extremely immoral, and we should draw attention to it as well.
guest
@Jenny_Wren@xanga - Yes, both are terrible but the chances of your son raping someone are statistically much higher than your daughter lying about being raped.
I don’t think there’s a need to be quite so literal here. You teach your kids to respect other people and their boundaries, you explain to your sons that girls are always equals, you teach your kids not to hurt others, you teach your kids not to lie.I understand what you are trying to say, but the way this man gave his son advice reeks of sexism and bigotry. There’s something wrong if you feel the need to specifically warn your child about women who lie about rape.
guest
@emptyabyss@xanga - I’m flattered that you remember me, but sadly I can’t return the favor. We’ve spoken before?
Pray tell, what opinion did I share that was bigoted in that comment?
Where did I seek your validation? The way I read it, seems more like I put your ignorance in check, which may be why you seem unable to actually respond to my comment instead of throwing empty, and utterly inconsequential insults my way.
guest
@Under_the_Ghillie@xanga - Yes, you’re right, I didn’t reply to you properly because I remember therre is no use in it. You made one weak argument about racism on some post and then relied on stating your opinions in a sarcastic manner in order to seem right or intelligent or something. I just can’t be bothered with people like you.
magnolia / 1027 posts
I get where his father was coming from because a lot of people say things nowadays to get attention, money, etc. The problem is his father should have worded it another way.
guest
It sounds to me like what his dad was telling him was…. “Do what you want to a girl who you are sure will not tell, but be careful of the ones that might stand up and say he forced himself on me….. remember, you want to stay out of jail “
I am a man. I have never raped a woman. I have never wanted to. If a woman and I began/ begin any type physical relationship, she was, and always shall be, free to change her mind, and say ‘I have changed my mind, let’s not go any further” . It is simple as that, and I reserve the same rights for myself. There are no exeptions, and no grey areas in my mind. If she isn’t sure that she wants to do anything, then she is free NOT TO. I don’t argue, cajole, plead, or anything beyond reasonable discussion of possibly why, or is there anything we need to do to reasonably satisfy, and comfort either one of us given the circumstances. She may desire to know why I said stop, and /or I might want to now why , but we stop none the less. I have always felt ,I don’t want her, unless she wants me, freely,and fully cognizant of the circumstances we are in. Then as long as we BOTH agree, and are adults, we are free to share in what ever manner we CHOOSE. Any time either one of us says “wait, I’m not sure” then everything stops. Once again, simple as that.
It seems that many religions are male dominant, and so many men seem to think it is their right to take what they want, having been raised up that way. I was taught differently, and I am glad. The Republican party seems to enjoy calling itself the “conservative, and Christian” party. The churches I’ve attended in the last 20 years are like political indoctrination centers. They accept you if you are a “Godly Republican”, and they disregard you, if you are a “Godless Democrat”. It makes me sad to see this. Churches are no place for national politics, in my humble opinion. Sadly their opinions spread, and if you are not one of them, then in their eyes (and this is simply my observation and opinion) you are not worthy of worrying about, and get what you deserve, because you do not follow their particular brand….. and that attitude, it seems, is what keeps slipping out in their public statements….. such as this.
Rape is wrong. It should never be tolorated. Yes, you out there are free to think differently. I wonder if you were raped , how that opinion might change. I also hope you never find out.
rose / 807 posts
I understand how someone who was actually raped could be extremely hurt and offended, hell feel unprotected by someone who is to represent them. It wasn’t well said. I understand his point though – he just did not word it well.
Flip the coin. Some women lie. Some men lie. Some people stay quiet. Most get hurt. Those who get off “free” are not free. They are delusional and wrong. Both sexes are quite guilty of this. Regardless, rape is an awful thing and should not be talked about so thoughtlessly, especially by an official.