Lovelyish

Feminism is about equal rights for women. I could see how this reinforces current beauty standards, but I don’t think it is necessarily “anti-feminist.” 

High school never ends.

If feminism is about having the freedom to make choices, then can’t we, as feminists, quit calling other women’s fashion choices anti-feminist?

@EccentricSiren@xanga - Amen.

I’m a feminist. But that doesn’t mean I don’t like feeling, you know, smooth & evened out. Whatever makes you confident. Feminism is all about choosing what works for you – and I can choose Spanx if I want to!

I don’t understand how this is an interesting debate.

To me being a feminist means doing what makes you happy despite the standards of others. Among other things of course. I think if it’s possible for a woman to be truly confident in themselves but wanting to smooth things out under certain circumstances then it’s ok. But honestly the only time I wear spanx are when I don’t feel confident in my body and wearing a dress will show all the lumps and bumps of a normal woman’s body if I don’t wear it. So it’s not exactly anti-feminist but it certainly doesn’t help the cause of getting people used to what people actually look like without piling shit on themselves to feel just barely passable in society. 

When did feminism come down to arguing about an undergarment while some people in the government are trying to take away women’s rights?

I don’t own Spanx because I don’t need it… yet. But someday, I will. And yes, I will still consider myself a feminist.

@Shinbi_Belldandy@xanga - don’t you know? women only care about underwear, shoes, clothes, and being in the kitchen.

Oh go burn your bras you femi-nazis!

If women want real liberation they’ll not find it in a debate about undergarments.

I don’t think it is either. It is an undergarment. Bras aren’t anti-feminist. Expecting a woman to wear a bra or expecting a woman to wear spanx is anti-feminist, but I don’t see that here.

So neither.

Oh go burn your bras you femi-nazis!

If women want real liberation they’ll not find it in a debate about undergarments (or feminism either.)

Does it matter whether undergarments are feminist or not? I highly doubt my g-string is feminist, I didn’t ask if it was or not.

Of course it’s not “feminist” friendly.  It says that women still have to meet rigid standards of beauty.  It reinforces the idea that women MUST look good to be listened to.  I don’t know why any self-proclaimed feminist would use them, especially in a photo shoot!  

@TiredSoVeryTired@xanga - And for those of us who merely want to smooth out a few lumps because a dress fits a bit funny? One can argue that it’s antifeminist to use physical appearance to boost your self confidence because you’re trying to fit into some idealized mold, but I’m not trying to look like a swimsuit model. I also don’t care about whether or not someone thinks I’m worth listening to if I don’t fit their idea of what a woman should look like; those people aren’t worth anyone’s time. All I care about is being able to zip up my favorite dress that’s too tight because I’ve gained a bit of weight or am just bloated. I don’t think shapewear in itself is antifeminist, but rather the intention behind wearing it. I think the same thing could be said about things like heels, dresses, and other things women are “supposed” to wear/do to look feminine. Whatever happened to wearing what we like because it’s what we feel comfortable in? If we avoid wearing something or doing something that we actually enjoy, aren’t we kind of giving those who think we belong in the kitchen, barefoot more power? They’re still affecting and influencing our decisions. Sorry, didn’t mean to write so much. Just wanted to present the view of someone who rarely cares what society thinks.

Woman can be thought of as an equal to a man and still want to look aesthetically pleasing. To me, wanting to be attractive is not about social restraints. It’s because we’re sub-conscoiusly linked to wanting to reproduce and be a viable mate. It’s more primal.  Men and women are both equally driven, naturally to listen to their bodies- their genes want a fit partner. 

That being said, there are a melange of factors contributing to whether or not you will be successful or even respected in this society: Socio-economic factors, BMI, how you dress, how well connected you are- things like that. 

Feminism is about equality. Men are pressured to look well dressed and well maintained, as well. I don’t wear makeup and heels because I need to or think someone wouldn’t approve if I didn’t. It’s my face. I like the way I look. I like being versatile.

The way I choose to look or dress has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that I want to be paid equally for the same job

or to be told that I’m not good at math or science or driving because I’m a woman. 

It depends on how down the feminist logic you want to go. Most women, take the concepts in a balanced sort of form; this is intended to be a more political statement–at least currently. Perhaps when women were being instructed to dress in skirts and dresses, there could have been a more intrusive argument placed on clothing, but that’s not an overbearing concern at the moment. 

A part of being a woman is dealing with the scrutiny we face about our bodies. Society, environment, and our experiences growing up teach us that our appearance is the basis of all communication and interactions, and that we need to look a certain way in order for someone to have a positive impression of us. This idea, however, is greatly exaggerated by women anyway; we are told that those who truly care about us don’t see the flaws that we think are SO OBVIOUS, but we don’t listen, because WE KNOW you can tell that our hair is flat and that our arms aren’t as toned as they were last summer. 

Part of being a feminist is acknowledging our weaknesses–because through them, we find our strengths. Women, for so long, were denied equality by those around us, and we have fought for them based on the ideas that we deserve them just as much as men do. 

If a friend of mine who was a feminist informed me she was wearing spanx, it wouldn’t cause me to think she had somehow drifted from her principles. It would just make me understand, that like myself, she has the same thoughts and insecurities as I do. Sometimes, that can be just as powerful as other avenues of feministic propaganda and ideas.   
It is possible to take this thought process too far; a good balance is always appropriate–context and circumstance is everything. The world is not as it was when feminism first came about, and it should be able to adapt accordingly while maintaining and perpetrating its core ideas. 

@QuantumStorm@xanga - LIKE TOTALLY.

@xiaosnowtenshi@xanga - I said “feminist” because I was speaking specifically about the photo shoot.  I didn’t mean all women, but I stand by my belief that it is not feminist friendly to promote the ideal that women have to artificially look better than their natural look by wearing constricting clothing underneath. 

Women, of course, should wear whatever they damn well please.  But spanx does us women no real favors.  It merely reinforces the idea that we have to look better than we actually do.  Men don’t have this issue.  They don’t wear makeup, high heels, or panty hose in the business world.  Heck, they don’t even have some crazy bra equivalent to hold their manly bits up in a more pleasing shape (or to one side or another or some other crazy position). 

If a dress doesn’t fit me, I don’t wear it.  Even if that means I may have to wear one that isn’t my first choice.  Again men don’t have to please society by squeezing into something they don’t fit into just to look better than they actually do.  I’m not saying women shouldn’t use Spanx, since it’s an available option, go ahead feel good in what you wear.  But damn, when can us girls just feel good about ourselves without external, artificial help like men do every single day?  We’ve come a long way, but still have a long way to go!  (Feministically speaking, in real life I would say wear what makes you most comfortable but I certainly wouldn’t encourage spanx, yet I wouldn’t poo poo it either in real life.)

I’m a feminist who LOVES wearing high heels, mini skirts, fur, jewelry, makeup. In general, I like to look sexy. I’m also very successful in my field. Hell I find women like me bigger feminists because they manage to be successful in life while breaking the feminist stereotype that we must be ugly to be smart and the same societal stereotype.

These girls are just jealous.

@TiredSoVeryTired@xanga – Feminism is the reason why I can dress how I want. It’s sad feminists now want to take us back…. but instead of long skirts, they want us to look like men.

I think sometimes people wear uncomfortable things because they want to want to make up for low self esteem, or simply generate a certain picture that is perceived in a certain way by ALL members of society. But that does not necessarily have to do with any men/women stuff.
I think if anything is anti feminist it is the assumption that women who wear it generally do so because they are opressed by men.

Feminism if I’m not mistaken is the cause of establishing equal rights for women.  But some will just use it as an excuse to be a judgmental asshole like some in any movement.

Lol.. this debate is ridiculous. Should we burn bras, heels & pantyhose, too? 

@TiredSoVeryTired@xanga - I completely agree with everything you’re saying. It’s not necessarily spanx themselves that are the trouble. It’s what they perpetuate.

According to @MoonFaeEyryan@xanga, in order to look attractive you must wear high heels, mini skirts, fur, jewelry, and makeup, and without those things you look like an ugly man. There’s nothing inherently wrong with indulging in those things, but why must they be necessary to look good? I, as a woman, should be able to walk out of my house sans makeup and bra and not be looked down upon, just like a man can.

The original post was about looking up to someone who, looking at this whole thing realistically, probably did more harm to women’s confidence than good. And if you wear spanx, don’t feel bad! It’s not about feeling bad about your body! It’s about celebrating it!

If feminism means I cannot wear whatever the hell I want, then screw feminism!
I am a girl who gets called sir at work and uses Axe and doesn’t even own a dress lol, I guess I am not very feminine anyway, but seriously, why do people have to judge? Who gives a crap?

So being feminist means i cant look the way i want to even if it means wearing spanx (whatever that is, we dont have that here)? Thats ridiculous.
Just be proud that another woman is a billionaire.

@MoonFaeEyryan@xanga - Jealous of what?  I dare say I look mighty okay in any dress I want to wear all without wearing any spanx!  The point isn’t that women shouldn’t wear spanx, who cares really.  The point is that a bunch of feminists who want equality for women are doing the opposite.  It’s not liberating women to tell them there is only one way to look sexy and that is to be skinny, smoothed out and perfect. 

Nothing wrong with women choosing to do that.  Nothing wrong with women choosing to wear high heels, short skirts, showing cleavage, and wearing makeup.  There is something wrong with insisting women must do that to look professional.  A business woman in business attire does not look like a man if she doesn’t wear a skirt or doesn’t wear heels or doesn’t wear makeup.  Women by virture of being women look like women. 

I don’t consider myself a feminist because the ideology is too narrowly defined for me.  I think women should choose to do whatever the heck they want, just like men do.  I think women should wear whatever the hell they want without judgment from other women, just like men do.  It’s not about not wanting women to look good, it’s about changing the definition of how a woman must look good.  And right now women can only look good in our society if they are skinny, smooth, have perfect hair, and have make up on.  There is no room in our society for women to look good naturally.  Men don’t deal with this kind of crap. 

@hotteayummy@xanga - ”The original post was about looking up to
someone who, looking at this whole thing realistically, probably did
more harm to women’s confidence than good. And if you wear spanx, don’t
feel bad! It’s not about feeling bad about your body! It’s about
celebrating it!”

Exactly!  There is nothing feminist about spanx or wearing spanx!  Wear them if you choose, of course.  But it’s not feminism at work. 

So, any woman who wants to be attractive isn’t a ‘real’ feminist?

I’ll wear whatever I want.

I think feminism is more about letting women be who they want and express themselves. Just because Spanx hold in your jiggle doesn’t mean they are restricting you unless you let them. Honestly, I don’t buy Spanx because they can be ridiculously expensive sometimes. But I think if a woman wears them because she wants to look that much better in that body conforming dress, I’d tell her go ahead.

If you’re wearing them because you want to and you feel more beautiful in them, go ahead. Isn’t telling a women she shouldn’t do something when she wants to anti-feminist? Given if a women is wearing them because everyone is telling her she’s ugly without it or women have to have that ideal figure, that sucks.

This whole debate is ridiculous.  A feminist can wear anything and look like whatever he/she wants to look like.  

@TiredSoVeryTired@xanga - Men are subject to all sorts of standards of beauty and masculinity as well. I hear so many boys my age worrying about their weight because they feel scrawny and shrimpy; they somehow feel obligated to gain weight and muscle to look like “real men.” Tom Cruise wears heeled loafers to even himself with his much taller wife. The Old Spice “Smell Like a Man” campaign was specifically designed to tap into the insecurity most men experience about their relative “manliness.”

I think it is a little unfair to try to add that “just like men do” clause to every “women shouldn’t have to” remark, because you so clearly ignore all the things that men go through. If women shouldn’t have to feel like they must wear makeup to work, men shouldn’t have to pomade their hair. If women shouldn’t have to wear heels, men shouldn’t have to wear polished business shoes in lieu of comfortable loafers. It’s not like women get all the crap as far as far standards of beauty go: men just don’t complain, because complaining shows that you’re just “a little bitch” who can’t “take it like a man.”

@soulfuric - I was bringing up only stuff women MUST do.  Yeah, sure we all know the masculine standards but none of those involve changing the way the person looks by using artificial means.  Yeah, the scrawny guy wants to be more muscular, but that takes exercise and stuff and frankly that is good for the body.  They make comfortable business shoes for men.  I’ve worn female versions of dress shoes and they are far more comfortable than heels and do not cause the damage that heels do.

Sure, we can now discuss what men have to do that women don’t.  There’s a list but we’re not talking about that here.  Both men and women have body standards, sure.  I’m not doubting that.  But men can go out in public without makeup, without fancy clothes, and without heels and still look sexy.  Women can’t.  Bringing up women’s issues like this isn’t about “let’s cry for the poor men too”.  If you’d like to do that, write a post about how hard it is wake up in the morning, wash and shave your face and then go to work or something. 

@emohairflip@xanga - ” Given if a women is wearing them because
everyone is telling her she’s ugly without it or women have to have that
ideal figure, that sucks.”

I think the whole point of wearing Spanx is to have that ideal figure!  And while that is just fine and dandy, women are free to choose whatever they want in practice.  In the idealized concept, it’s simply reinforcing the strict beauty standards that women must look perfect. 

I like to be appealing to my husband..so I wear dresses, heels, makeup, even though I techinically don’t have to. I want to look feminine and presentable. I want him to feel proud of me.

I don’t think it’s bad or backward  to go with culture’s definition of femininity.

@QuantumStorm@xanga - THIS!!!

Come on people, just because a woman wants to wear Spanx doesn’t mean she wants to be subjected to and objectified by men. Maybe she’s really insecure about her body and doesn’t like the way she looks in things. You can argue all day long why she feels that way but at the end of the day, her happiness should be her priority. This is so stupid!

@soulfuric - Of course that same pressure is there, but you can’t compare the scrutiny that men go through with the scrutiny that women go through in regards to appearance. The issue is that women’s value is limited to appearance, while men have the rest of the world’s issues to conquer. Women are praised for their beauty and men are praised for their accomplishments.

As some previous comments have stated, women should be able to dress however makes them feel the happiest. I, personally, do not feel happy in any sort of restrictive undergarment, high heels, or make up. So should my decision to not wear them change my value? The problem is that it does change my value in the world that we’re living in today. Of course things have changed since the oppression of the past, and that’s wonderful. But that doesn’t mean that we’re there yet. 

I feel really bad for people that have such a narrow-minded view of what a feminist is. I am and will forever be a feminist, but I still like makeup, shaving my legs and if needed, a pair of Spanx to make me look and feel my best. I can pay for dinner but I am also pleasantly surprised when my boyfriendf won’t let me. I believe in women and men being paid the same for equal work. Many people only think about what an extreme-feminist is and not about the less extreme.

I fail to see how underwear has anything to do with women’s equality.

Hahaha. So what constitutes as an anti-feminist product? I don’t really care much for “feminism”, but this lady taking risks, establishing a decent business, and having success makes her a positive role model to young women. She’s not saying women must look one way or dress in a certain manner, she’s providing a product for those who would be interested in it.

Even if every magazine out said women must look a certain way, people are still individuals who can make their own choices for their lives. It’s ridiculous that many people enslave themselves to what they’re exposed to, and in doing so that’s your own problem, not society’s.

@TiredSoVeryTired@xanga - 

“But men can go out in public without makeup, without fancy clothes, and without heels and still look sexy.  Women can’t.”

Says who? Something is anti-feminist or female when it prevents women from having equal opportunity to healthcare, earning money, a voice in society, security, etc. Things of that nature. People in the media having or upholding some sort of beauty standards for women isn’t anti-feminist because at the end of the day seeing skinny or scantily clad women on even every single magazine cover doesn’t physically force women to conform to something. Those in the media who promote body shapes are just propagating their own views that nobody else is bound to. At the end of the day, individuals choose to conform to standards set by other human beings who at the end of the day are just man (no pun intended) like you.

There are just as many professional athletes with impressive bodies as there are super models, and as big as sports is globally we see athletic, strong, attractive men all day through live sports, highlight shows, and visual media. It doesn’t mean men feel forced to do crazy things to be in shape, athletic and strong. Why is that?