We all know what blatant “get back in the kitchen” sexism is (or at least I hope so). But what about the subtler forms? Prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination based on gender are usually not recognized as sexism by many because it is perceived to be normative (and therefore does not appear to be unusual). Most of the time, the offender is not trying to be intentionally harmful.
Subtle sexism is primarily manifested in speech. Some examples would be:
θ Calling someone “just a housewife”
θ Expecting men to always pay for dates
θ Making PMS comments when a woman is mad
θ Calling guys “sissies” or “p*ssies” as an insult
θ Limiting a man in planning his own wedding
θ Making sweeping comments about women or men as a group (“women just like to gossip” “men only want one thing”)
The list goes on.
Women in typically male professions and men in typically female professions are even more likely to experience this kind of sexism. A nurse will routinely be singled out as a MALE nurse, and, similarly, an engineer will frequently be singled out as a FEMALE engineer.
An automatic response by many is to say that people who get worked up about this stuff are overreacting.
It’s a catch-22. To react to these comments is considered being over-sensitive, but to let them go makes such comments somehow acceptable. These examples may seem like nitpicking, but they are indicative of underlying beliefs — beliefs that have been integrated into social norms so that men and women are not fully aware of the extent of sexism in their lives.
On the macro-level, this problem reinforces traditional gender roles and preserves patriarchal social structures, but there seem to be even more consequences than previously believed. Recent studies conducted by Sezgin Cihangir indicate that subtle sexism can be more harmful than overt sexism! This study (which only looked at women) claims that it is easier for women to brush off instances of blatant sexism (while still retaining their pride) because the sexism is easier to identify, making it easier for the women to believe that the offender is wrong (or a chauvinist f*ckwad, if you will). Subtle sexism, on the other hand, is harder to identify (which makes it harder to place blame on the perpetrator), but still hurts self-esteem and leaves a woman feeling singled out.
I could go on, but I’ll leave it at that. I’m eager to use your stories for my upcoming presentation on this topic and hear what you have to say on the matter.
Have you experienced subtle sexism? Do you think reactions to these kinds of comments are overreactions? How might we address and change this form of sexism?
guest
Yes. Someone said I was PMSing once so I threw a whole bowl of taco salad in their face. I’m not sure if I won because they were covered in cheese and burger or if they won because it reinforced their point.
lily / 5148 posts
Of course I have and it’s quite annoying and full of bullshit most of the time.
daffodil / 1607 posts
@ShimmerBodyCream@xanga - omg lolol
I’m taking a feminism class, I signed up for it not really knowing what “women’s literature” meant … I thought it was just books by women, not even considering the fact that it is heavily centered around feminism.
but after the first class I became wary of these subtleties good and bad thing
sunflower / 413 posts
Yeah but I don’t take it personally because I have a sense of humor. Most of the time when I am being a bitch, it is because I’m PMSing. People need to grow up and laugh stuff off. Life is no fun if you’re angry over little comments all the time. When I call a guy a pussy, they laugh it off. I can see getting upset if it is constantly being repeated, but just one comment here or there is so not worth getting worked up over.
guest
Yeah, but it was as a compliment to my cooking skills in college. During my Junior year in college one of my roommates friends would come over for dinner and say that my cooking was better than her moms. Clearly I wasn’t upset over hearing this, but I find it interesting that she would compliment based on the fact it was made by a guy, rather than the perfection than of it’s creation, haha.
guest
Yeah. It makes me furious sometimes. Eve teasing and sexism definitely bothers me. Subtle sexism can bother me too, depending.
I admit though, I pretty much live in a little protected bubble from that stuff. My mom gets super pissed at my brother or dad for saying stuff like that so it isn’t at home. At work 80% of the employees and ALL the managers are female, so you better believe women rule the roost. Also my boyfriend knows how sensitive I am to sexism so he is very careful with what he says. I don’t hang out with any male friend “idiots” who say shit like this very often. I occasionally bump into it on facebook but then I can just remove the idiots from my news feed.
So yes thankfully I have surrounded myself in a as much of a almost sexist free environment as I can. It’s not perfect but it’s pretty good.
tulip / 13 posts
As a classical musician, I definitely encounter racism. It is common for orchestra members to say things like “I hate women conductors.” Although not true years ago, nowadays one would get in big trouble for saying something like “I hate women CEOs!”
http://www.classicalmusicjournal.com.au/vienna-philharmonic-sexism-and-racism-scandals/
tulip / 12 posts
I agree with @Love_never_fails, people really need to get a sense of humor and stop bitching about the small stuff. Stop taking these things so seriously. And don’t lie, you know you’re a bitch when you PMS. It’s what we do lol
guest
Even if it’s subtle it’s still unnecessary. I used to find those jokes funny sometimes but it gets old quick and makes the person telling the joke seem like a bit of a neanderthal. If anything the joke itself doesn’t offend me but the fact that some people have to rely on prejudice comments in order to be “funny”.
guest
“θ Calling someone “just a housewife”"
considering that ALL women, working or unemployed, have households to take care of, i don’t consider being a housewife akin to actually having a job. at best, it’s voluntary unemployment.
“θ Calling guys “sissies” or “p*ssies” as an insult”
the proper response for any man who is called a pussy is, “You know what they say… you are what you eat.”
“θ Limiting a man in planning his own wedding”
my SO has already told me the only thing he wants to do is pick his groomsmen. personally, i think that’s awesome.
guest
Look at this atrocious excuse for a man. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0xoKiH8JJM
THIS is sexism. I tend not to sweat the tiny things, like people saying that all girls like pink, or that all boys like playing with cars, or what-have-you, but THIS….this just makes my blood curdle. >:\
magnolia / 1357 posts
ahhh… it’s lovely to read something that makes up the culture in my home country on international blogs /sarcarsm
Sexism is quite common here, although many people seem to be blind to it. I really don’t think that a man asking a girl why she bothers studying a work-filled major at a top university instead of an easy major and just finding a husband is a very nice thing to say… even if it is just a joke. It stops being so after so many times it has been asked.
guest
My car used to have a problem where it would leak coolant all the time and they couldn’t figure out why. So, a lot of the time I would have to stop at gas stations and add some so my car wouldn’t overheat. I lost count of how many times men asked if I needed help, or told me I was wrong, or added “helpful comments”. Once a guy in the gas station store where I was buying coolant told me it was just my air conditioner dripping water. Then I told him it was bright green, and he just said, “Oh”. Probably wouldn’t have happened if I was a guy.
guest
Perfect example. My friends used to think it was weird that BOTH of my parents were NURSES. “Isn’t your dad like a doctor?” No, he is a nurse, not all nurses are women ya know!
sunflower / 451 posts
I remember telling some of my male friends how I had to defend some sound equipment from an overly curious drunk at an event I was running. After firmly saying, “Get off my stage” several times, to no avail, I grabbed the drunk by his wrists and pulled him off the stage. It worked. He didn’t bother me anymore. I thought the guys’ reaction would be positive, or at least neutral. Then one of them, who is about 4 inches shorter than I am and probably weighs about the same as me, said, “You should have let a man deal with it.”
WTF?
guest
The irony of this being on Lovelyish is just so funny.
guest
Yes, I remember whenever I was angry/upset my ex would ask if I was “PMS-ing.” I’m not “PMS-ing,” you’re just a douche lol.
guest
Try growing up a girl in a Pentecostal, mostly Italian (could pass for mafia) church… and being a total tomboy… Square peg, meet round hole. Sexism was overt, it was subtle, it was camouflaged, it was out-right in your face… It was something I constantly dealt with, being told, “You can’t do that, you’re a girl.” or “You can’t wear that if you want to sing on the platform.” Even worse, the assumptions that were made because I preferred to hang out with the boys… *shrugs* They liked computers, sports, and Star Trek… so did I. The girls liked fashion, makeup, and giggling stupidly about boys… I did not. Yeah… don’t get me started…
guest
Can you exactly tell me why making sweeping generalizations is wrong, when the generalizations are right?
I don’t see how saying “Women are usually physically weaker than men.” is wrong because it’s true, and anyone who’s taken evolutionary biology or evolutionary psychology will understand why. “Men are better at math and have better spatial abilities.” “Men are better with directions.” Now there is evidence that supports and evidence that conflicts with these statements, but what if men really were hands down better at women at something? You have to realize that men and women are built differently, even when it comes to our brains. Women are better at emotional empathy than men are, but is it really so terrible to say “Women on average are better at emotional empathy.”? Sure, it may put pressure on some people to change, but that’s their own issue. I’m not as girly as the average girl, and I know that a lot of asian guys like their girls a certain way, but I love me the way I am and find friends and boyfriends who do the same. If you act differently you should expect people to notice that you deviate from the norm, although if they criticize you for it than that is another issue entirely.
It’s like stating that on average, asians are shorter, or that on average, [insert race] commit more crimes proportionally than [insert race]. Some generalizations are unfortunate but still true. And there is nothing inherently wrong with stating them.
sunflower / 405 posts
guy designers are really good though.
anyway, i think feminism is a somewhat a complicated topic because there are guys saying, if you want it to be equal, then we’ll treat you like dudes.
so i just stick to doing whatever I want. because isn’t anti-feminist is like saying you can’t do that because blah blah blah
guest
@ShimmerBodyCream@xanga - You won lol.
@f5ye_angel5@xanga - Wait… if women want it to be equal, why would they be treated like “dudes”? That’s so biased. Female equality does not mean “become a man”. We do not have to fit male gender norms in order to be equal… that is contradictory.Equality, if anything, should be about both gender norms finding a middle where people are treated equally.
guest
I HATE when people call guys pussies. And guys have asked me if I’m on my period when I’m mad, as if they can’t do anything to piss anyone off and it MUST be my rag. But all in all, when someone tends to say these things, it’s because they are conditioned to think that way. A lot of people that say these phrases (at least to me) don’t MEAN to be sexist, they just have heard it said many times so they keep repeating it. When they actually believe all of what they are saying and the meaning of it, that’s when it’s an issue. You can never get rid of sexism fully. But, yes, these types of phrases do reinforce sexism as a whole (and a lot of people don’t even know because they give it no second thought.)
@LightBlue21@xanga - I think it’s more the intent behind the statements. There are lots of men who really do mean women are WEAKER (in every aspect) because they are women. The problem with some generalizations is they are true in some places but not in others. But to just state them without trying to insult someone, that is different.