Lovelyish

I would sort of like to impose a question here…

What are they SUPPOSED to call it?

Should they call it “Najavo STYLED?” … ? What?

I’m no trying to be rude here… I’m trying to understand what the exact problem is and how it’s supposed to be rectified…

I personally would not have seen any problem with the name of the print. I don’t think anyone I know would have either.

@LKJSlain@xanga - They are against throwing the specific “Navajo” name on some generic idea of what Native American prints look like. The prints aren’t actually reflective of Navajo textiles. From what I gather, anyway.

@LKJSlain@xanga - There’s several issues with calling it a Navajo print. Namely that it is illegal, as they are advertising it as coming from a specific Native American tribe when it does not — there is an actual law against that, and I think actual Navajos were offended. Two, they’re reducing Native American culture to a “native-looking” pattern. Not to mention that the pattern doesn’t have any native origin at all. A lot of the blogs I follow on Tumblr were talking about it a couple weeks ago.

I think the main problem with stuff like this is the reduction of foreign cultures, which are diverse and complex, to stereotypical styles or objects that have nothing to do with those cultures, and then selling those things to people who don’t know any better. They’re turning the culture into a commodity.

I don’t understand the big deal about calling it Oriental girl necklace…. Oriental means pertaining to the east….

@thepsychoticraccoon@xanga - I didn’t know about the law, thank you for informing me. It makes a little more sense now.

Navajo I can understand, but Oriental? As @LKJSlain@xanga said, what are we supposed to call it? Asian? Someone would be up in arms about that too.

@not_your_concern@xanga - That’s sort of how I felt about it… Unfortunately, now days it seems like you can’t do ANYTHING without getting some small group offended. Le sigh… oh well.

I think everyone overreacts to everything nowadays. Like the shirts that say “I’m too pretty to do math” and whatnot. Feminists went insane over it and stores pulled them from shelves and websites. I say a real feminist wouldn’t ruin the fun for everyone else and let other girls do/buy whatever they feel like.

education is key, just reading the comments above mine I learned something new . i guess the only thing that they can do now is apologize and try to improve in the future .

@LKJSlain@xanga - @not_your_concern@xanga - “Oriental” is considered by some to be an antiquated term, like calling someone “colored.”  At least, that is why my mother prickles at the word.  Personally, I think people get too wrapped up in what terms are PC and what aren’t.

@AubreyBird@xanga - @Love_never_fails - I sort of think that both of these comments are moving on my original thought.

People need to sort of look the other way sometimes and not let it ruffle their feathers. It’s not as if anyone was TRYING to offend someone.

@swtaznxtc90@xanga - or… it was just a descriptor for someone from somewhere else? >_> …

I’m sorry, I am really trying to understand. I know that CERTAIN words are indeed racist in regards to anyone Asian, or otherwise… but I have NEVER heard oriental used as a “racist” word…

I know Asians who use the word describe things… >_> I’m confused. Is an “oriental” rug racist? O-o

@LKJSlain@xanga - Oriental was at one point used to as someone mentioned divide east and west. However, it was not just Asians (the ones who  are Chinese, viet, japanese, etc) who were of the orient, it was anyone who was not of european heritage. 

It came to be a racist-esque term that held a Europeans as ethnically supreme/superior to everyone else
A lot of families from Asia, especially the first generation here in America who moved from Asia, have a strong disdain toward that word. I didn’t know about it until I was in 5th grade when I was discussing this word with my teacher, then furthered the discussion with a professor at my college.

I do see your point about saying that no one meant to offend, but ignorance isn’t always overlooked by a lot of people! Though you and I may find no offense there are still a lot of people who have very unfortunately suffered because of certain words =[ 
I think most people nowadays especially in America do think that oriental was and alwas has meant only the Asians from the China, Korea that area. 

@AubreyBird@xanga - That makes sense. But would the term “Asian” be better for that kind of necklace?

@swtaznxtc90@xanga - 

Hmm thanks for that information.
I have always assumed Oriental meant Asians from China, Japan, ect..

@not_your_concern@xanga - 

I’d say not any better.. isn’t Asian a bit vague of a term?
Asia IS (people seem to overlook this) a rather large continent full of a diverse population and many different cultures.
I’d say if it’s an accurate representation of a certain culture.. then they should use that specific culture to describe the necklace.
I have a minority Asian friend who is very touchy over the term Asian in general simply BECAUSE it’s so all-encompassing… but then again, you can’t please everyone lol! Somebody’s gonna get offended no matter what you do…

@LKJSlain@xanga - 

Good question… I’ve never heard anyone get mad over an oriental rug (except maybe at the price)

And.. what about other stuff like celtic necklaces…. are those offensive too?
And come on, what about all the so-called ‘Asian’ foods marketed in the USA that probably are nothing like the authentic deal?
Those are probably offensive, too right?
;o

okay, honestly, i don’t understand what’s so bad about this.. 

@LKJSlain@xanga - ”Oriental” is typically less controversial when used to describe things (like rugs) but more controversial when used to describe people.  So F21 probably would’ve gotten less flack if they’d named it “Oriental DOLL necklace” rather than “oriental GIRL necklace”.  After all, the whole concept of an “Oriental girl” necklace is pretty bizarre/offensive to begin with –can you imagine a “White girl” necklace, or a “black girl” necklace? 

The term oriental is highly Eurocentric; as other commenters have mentioned, it was a way to describe everything east of Europe (essentially using Europe as the “center”, though there is no real justification for this).  I think specifically in the US, oriental also took on a lot of negative connotations (exoticism, etc).

@just_the_average_jane@xanga - wait… So it’s okay to use the word “oriental” when describing something that we trample on the floor… but not to refer to a person?

>_> … I am really even more totally confused now.

@LKJSlain@xanga - think of it this way –BECAUSE it’s used for things we trample on the floor, it becomes inappropriate to use for a person.  

@just_the_average_jane@xanga - yeah, I’m sorry, that makes absolutely no sense to me.

And please explain to me why I know lots of asian peoples who will uncaringly use the words “Orient” or “oriental”  ?

@LKJSlain@xanga - Re the first point, you wouldn’t want to equate people with things that you trample on the floor, correct?  Because people aren’t objects.

Re the second point, the connotations against oriental are fading.  So older generations are typically the most offended by it, because at that time, it was typically used in a derogatory fashion.  Younger generations may not be offended by it, because it is more rarely used in an overtly offensive manner today.

@just_the_average_jane@xanga - But see, it was ORIGINALLY said to refer to people… so the RUG was actually named after the reference the PEOPLE… not the people were named in regards to the rug… >_>

It’s like saying, “Oriental is a racist-esque word referring to a certain type of people” – “Let’s call carpets Oriental…” “Wait, that’s okay! But, calling the people oriental is not…”

>_> I’m sorry… makes no sense.

@LKJSlain@xanga - I see your confusion. I don’t think it was originally used to refer to people actually –it was originally used to refer to EVERYTHING east of Europe, whether that was people or objects. Does that make more sense?

@just_the_average_jane@xanga - I suppose so, but then if that’s what it’s used to refer to them… why then is it a bad thing? Are we supposed to just call them Asians?

@LKJSlain@xanga - By “them”, do you mean people or things?  People = Asian, things = oriental

@just_the_average_jane@xanga - Well, let’s go with either.

@LKJSlain@xanga - I don’t understand your comment, sorry (this is what happens when I walk away to get waffles –brain totally derailed)  Can you clarify?  

@just_the_average_jane@xanga - I just mean, are we then supposed to call everything and everyone “asian”… how is that any better really?

@LKJSlain@xanga - I think the difference is whether or not the people in question got a say in what they were called –”oriental” is a term that was applied to Asians (they had no say in being called Oriental), whereas “Asian” is a term that they have chosen to identify themselves with.  

@anenigmaofsorts@xanga - I think the rule of thumb is oriental for describing things, not for people. And since the necklace charm is supposed to be a person…yeah. I don’t think calling it an Asian/Chinese girl necklace would sound any better, personally. 

I’m sincerely offended by “white-T”s they represent nothing of my white culture.

I saw this necklace when I went into a F21 store a long while back. They don’t mark these items with any sort of names in the stores, but I thought it was tacky. Most of this kind of stuff is tacky. Of course, fashion companies think they can get away with it because it’s “inspired” and it’s all about freedom of expression. Usually people respond poorly when those from marginalized cultures vocalize the offensiveness of such items. F21 is one of the biggest offenders I’ve seen in this sort of “fast fashion” atmosphere. They have no shame.

Should I/we start bitching publicly about “Hawaiian Pizza”? I mean hey, since clothing that isn’t pertaining directly to the culture/country/race is considered insensitive, what about food? You can’t start throwing ethnicities in front of a type of food unless it actually came/originated from the area.

But you know what? we don’t, because it’s stupid, because everything is offensive to SOMEONE in the world. Why do you want to change this world into such a Dystopian society? Unless you are truly trying to offend a group of people, then just chillax.

I think it should have been called, Geisha girl necklace. It’s funny how people are making “Native-American, Asian and African” inspired clothes, but no one is doing the same thing with Russian, German or any other European culture. I wonder why?

Politically correctness can suck my white, young, male, mid-western american ass! It’s bullshit!  

Well, they certainly can’t call it “Occidental.”

WHO CARES. Chill the hell out lol.

When I hear about stuff like this, my inner hippy just wants to go, “Words are just words, maaaan.”

Oo wait, hippy is generalizing. Have I offended anyone?

People need to overlook small things like that because seriously, you’re making something out of nothing. 
When someone buys a pair of “Navajo” socks from Urban Outfitters they dont give it much thought besides something approximating to “these look Native American. That’s cool”. This hypothetical person’s thought might go as far as to think, ” Im gonna rock these during thanksgiving” Is that a bad thing? Being reminded of Native American culture?  I dont think the company was being insensitive in labeling them “Navajo” because the truth of the matter is that we the consumers have a general idea of what “Navajo” prints look like anyhow.  Most Urban Outfitter goers are’nt experts at Native American textiles. In our fast paced world, we are’nt looking for the exact copy of what used to be in a time back then. We are looking for the mere essence and thats what were gonna get because in reality things do get changed over time and all we can do is remember them the best we can. 

As for the oriental necklace, though, I think that there are other possible names like “giesha gal” or “flower and willow girl” because the term “oriental” was racist-esque at a time so its best to avoid it altogether for a scrutinizing society like ours.

Also, what does “prickles” mean?

I completely do not get this. Is the word navajo offennsive? I also don’t understand is orient or oriental bad just because of history (I don’t know how to explain) I really don’t understand. I’ve seen Romanian and Hungarian folk paterns on things (exactly what we have in kitchens and our grandmother’s wear) and it’s okay. I think it’s really nice to have “modern” stylish clothes with folk pattern kind of designs.

@theflowerstem@xanga - like I said, I’ve seen some Transylvanian (we have like 100s of variations of embroidery pattern according to region or town) that shows up sometimes. But maybe it is because all of we eastern european can laugh at ourselves rather easily (i’m generalising but in my experience is true.) Also, many americans I know are less interested in european designs and history maybe because it is too similar or something and they would like more to discover something more distant or exotic?

So if I make socks with a tartan pattern and call them “Scottish”, is this insensitive?
If I make a sweater with a pretty print and call it “Fair Isle”, is that insensitive?
If I make jewelry with turquoise and call it “New Mexico” style, is that insensitive?
If I make handcuffs and call them “San Quentin” is that insensitive?
If I make wooden shoes and call them “Dutch”, is that insensitive?
If I make a cross necklace and call it “Christian”, is that insensitive?
How about a star of David and calling it Jewish?  No?
I can’t buy an Oriental rug without being a bad, mean person?
How about a Welsh love spoon that isn’t actually from Wales, but that I made?  I’m intolerant?

I’m gonna go get in my nondescript bed, that definitely doesn’t have both Indian and English influences (Bombay), because to say so would be culturally insensitive.  I’ll pull back the mosquito nets from the canopy and dream of a country-less world with no people to offend.

@LKJSlain@xanga - @anenigmaofsorts@xanga - @just_the_average_jane@xanga - @not_your_concern@xanga - 

@a_girl_with_a_pen@xanga - It’s a bad decision because it’s not Navajo. Also, considering the treatment and marginalization of Native Americans in this country, it’s a very poor decision to try to capitalize off a group of people that have no stake in the product.

This doesn’t go to you specifically, but I’m SO SORRY all of you people who don’t have any relation to these cultures are feeling upset that you might have to think about what you’re saying every once in a while. It’s so hard for you, guys. I get it.

I don’t know how many articles of Irish clothes I bought that were made in China. Though I’m Irish, I’m not offended. Nor is it illegal.

There’s nothint wrong with the term “Oriental”

In Britain it’s the word applied to what American’s call “Asians”, “Asians” Are Indians, Pakistaniis and Bangladeshians.

@NightCometh@xanga - All those things you named are from SPECIFIC cultures. What’s being done with Native American, African and Asian cultures is, people are taking ONE pattern and saying it represents that ENTIRE group, which is WRONG! There are 54 countries in Africa and many, many, many tribes. To say that one print represents each and every country and tribe is offensive and most of all IGNORANT. To say that one pattern is Native American when there are many Indian tribes is IGNORANT. To call something of Asian decent oriental, a rug, is OFFENSIVE AND STUPID. How long would it have taken those people to look up what that necklace SHOULD have been called? If you’re too lazy and stupid to do that, then don’t put that kind of stuff out.

@a_girl_with_a_pen@xanga - The difference is, you guys have 100s of varations of patters that obviously represent the different  people of Transylvania. You guys are not stereotyping like we are. Over here, people are not doing that. If people were specific about which culture their skirt, top, jewerly, etc. was from people wouldn’t complain so much.

@Nushirox2@xanga - Who are you to tell someone what word(s) they should or shouldn’t be offended by? You don’t tell people what you’re going to call them, THEY TELL YOU.

@jmallory@xanga - Irish is one specific culture, it if that was the culture made to represent all 27 countries in Europe, people would speak out against it because there are MANY different cultures in Europe. What I just said is what’s being done with Asian, African and Native-American culture and it’s wrong and stupid.

Really, I don’t see the big deal.  I think people are too politically correct these days.

@just_the_average_jane@xanga - What if it was something like “celtic girl necklace” or some other cultural thing like that.  Are those offensive too?

People are too sensitive.

searching too hard for the next big thing.
digging the first .gif

@NightCometh@xanga - @firetyger@xanga - @raspberryjade@xanga - (shakes head) No no. See, white people aren’t allowed to be offended. Cuz then they’re racist.

@theflowerstem@xanga - Me? I’m a member of society who speaks Standard English and has no intention of offending people when referring to them by race or country of origin.

@Nushirox2@xanga - Dodging the question by changing the subject I see. How about this, when someone tells you that they don’t like said name, don’t refer to them by said name. Period end of sentence. Just because YOU don’t see the harm in it doesn’t mean there isn’t any.

@orionkiller@xanga - Political Correctness isn’t bullshit it’s respect and if you have a problem with respecting people don’t complain when you get sued, bullied and harrassed even by your own people who hate your mindset.

@theflowerstem@xanga - Cuz everyone knows Germans just run around in lederhosen all day. =D

calling something like this “navajo” implies that it’s specifically navajo inspired, which it’s not. it’s “native” inspired and it’s combining different cultures into one manufactured, false idea of all natives being the same. it’s called appropriation, taking pieces of cultures and making them your own.
and no, fashion isn’t immune to criticism.

@orionkiller@xanga - is it wrong that this comment turned me on a little? >_>

I think the point that everyone is trying to make here is that every single time someone comes in and tries to defend this blog/entry they say, “Well, you’d call it THIS instead…” but everytime someone says the “THIS” – that thing is ALSO something that would offend SOMEONE…

Someone said, “Call it a Geisha” necklace… someone would surely be offended by that considering who and what geishas have been throughout history… (personally, I think that would have been more offensive to certain people) So, are you saying that if I look sort of “asian” (oops, I can’t even use that word to describe) that I’m a GEISHA!?!? …

Do you see the problem here?

When we name something pertaining to another culture we are NOT suggesting that that thing ENCOMPASSES the “entire” culture. –

For instance. I am an jewelry designer, and from time to time I call something an “Asian” inspired necklace. I mean that it sort of looks like something that might have come from asia… But that’s often the thought behind these things too. Not that they are “chinese” or “indian” but that they look a little like something that would COME from there…

Someone would have to be ultra idiot number ONE to think, “Oh look, these pair of socks being sold at Forever 21 that were surely made in a hogan by a najavo indian totally and completely encompass the entire Navajo culture!” >_> No… they say, “Oh look, they look sort of indian or something…” >_> 

I would like to apologize to all Navajo indians for insinuating that they live in a hogan and that they make socks… 

Is this comment mind spinning/ironic? O_o 

@LKJSlain@xanga - But the problem comes with these questions:
Do you know what a real Navajo Native American looks like? Do you know the difference between tribes? Is this the main representation of Natives in your life?
For most, the answer is no, which makes this a representation of all Natives or Navajo in their entire lives and they don’t know that there are differences in cultures.

@theflowerstem@xanga - So I can’t say something that’s true and justified based on the fact that it might hurt someone’s feelings? So what you’re saying is that the fact that home-schooled children had a more focused environmental to learn in which resulted in greater intelligence and them doing more with their life is wrong and disrespectful because it might make a public schooled person feel stupid and/or inferior.

“The classic example of political correctness was the reaction to the book “The Bell Curve”. The theses (there were several) of this book, which was essentially the popularization of several decades of psychometric research, may be summarized: 1. Intelligence (more particularly the quantity called “g” or general intelligence by psychometricians) is a meaningful description of mental functioning. Measures of it in an individual are reproducible and stable across time. 2. Intelligence is a key to success in life. More intelligent people have, on average, higher incomes and better jobs, and are less likely to commit crimes, use recreational drugs or have illegitimate children than less intelligent people. 3. Intelligence is strongly heritable. This is difficult to quantify, but at least half the variation in intelligence is explained by heredity. The remaining variation is environmental, in poorly understood ways. 4. The mean intelligence is different in identifiable racial groups, and this explains the large variation in their success in American society. The most successful groups (East and South Asians) have the highest mean intelligence, Americans of European ancestry have somewhat lower mean scores, and Americans of West African ancestry have the lowest.” This, while being statistically proven is the definition of political incorrectness.”http://wuphys.wustl.edu/~katz/pc.html - please do read the rest of this article and educate yourself.You’re saying that scientifically documented fact is wrong and disrespectful because it infers a hierarchy of intelligence in races of people. So as a white doctor I can’t say to a black man that he needs to be checked for heart disease and diabetes more often? It would be politically incorrect to point out a difference in our races that might make mine appear to be superior in any way. How about the fact that people who eat Mcdonalds often are more likely to be obese? That says I’m better that you cause I don’t like Mcdonalds.

 ”It is an article of passionate faith among ‘politically correct’ biologists and anthropologists that brain size has no connection with intelligence; that intelligence has nothing to do with genes; and that genes are probably nasty fascist things anyway.”<li>Richard Dawkins, in The Economist, Vol. 328 (1993)<li>The term “political correctness” has always appalled me, reminding me of Orwell‘s “Thought Police” and fascist regimes.<li>Helmut Newton, in American Photo (January/February 2000), p. 90<li>http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Political_correctness<li>1. The laws of moral and ethical relativism; all systems of cultures and thought are equal in value, steming from a perceived guilt from white liberals who believe that the Western Civilization is the root of all evil to the exclusion of all else. 

2. A powerful form of censorship. 

abbr: PCPolitical correctness has a basic flaw. If all views are equal, why do some who embrace this view feel the need to push this agenda as the “correct” one at the same time demonizing other views as “incorrect”?”Jamal was offended by me calling him a perverted gay fairy black boy all stung out on crack. The politically correct thing to say would be that Jamal is leading an acceptable alternative lifestyle as an african-american homosexual who has the disease of drug addiction.” http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=politically%20correct
Political correctness is bullshit perpetrated by left-wing hypocrites trying to censor everyone and make rich white guys feel bad for making something of themselves when there are so many poor people that never got off their ass and made something of themselves!
Like I said, fuck political correctness!  I believe I can rest my case…

@LKJSlain@xanga - idk, maybe…

@orionkiller@xanga - You were talking about being politically correct in regards to groups different from your own. You, for some reason, don’t think you should RESPECT them. Talk about that, because, in regards to race that’s what being politically correct means. What you wasted your time writing or copying and pasting, has nothing to do with this coversation.

The comments on this are gold (no offense to other precious metals).

@RealistFantasies@xanga - I’m sorry, but I think that everyone would have to be PRETTY naive to even suggest that someone would actually believe that a “style” or a “print” in some how makes people ignorant of a culture…

If you’re not of that culture, you’re going to be a little ignorant of it regardless, sure…

But for the most part, MOST of us learn quite a bit about these people/cultures in school and then from friends and family who are not OUR OWN culture…

Like I said, no one who buys a pair of socks witha print on them thinks that the socks are a representation of the culture. They think, “Oh, it slightly resembles something navajo, which is why they titled it that way…”

The point I was trying to make with my last statement was that REAL problem is that no matter WHAT someone called a print, style, etc… someone would be upset because people all across the globe get upset over stupid things. If for instance, I called something “Asian” someone would STILL be in my face, “Oh, so you’re saying that this represents all asians everywhere? I’m asian american, get it right, bla bla bla…” It wouldn’t matter what “style” it was or how it was referred to, someone would still be upset… (And like I said regarding the “Geisha” girl necklace… if I were a Geisha, or even just someone offended by what Geisha’s represented, then I’D be offended… then what?)

I’m sorry, but you can’t appease everyone.

It’s nothing to get up in arms over because number one –
No offense was MEANT-

And number TWO-
No one is DUMB enough to believe that naming something a style/type is all encompassing of what a culture or group looks like… Like I said, most of us are cultured enough to have learned in school what a REAL Navajo looks like, what their wonderful culture is like, etc…

I will also end this entire speech with saying that people are very quick to get all up in arms over things that offend someone and yet, I get mocked, and offended EVERY DAY for who I am and quite frankly? I just let it slide and shrug… oh well… not the end of MY life… people will interpret things different ways.

Life is better when you just let things “go”…

Unless it is a TRULY serious matter (you know, murder, calling someone durrogatory names in public, treating someone badly because of sexual orientation, etc…) those things might be something to cry about…

Not someone said something without trying to offend me at all, but now I’m offended because I BELIEVE that the rest of the world will view all of my people in such a way (Isn’t that ALSO judging someone and putting THE REST of the world into a “space/box” ?) I think it offends ME that someone would think I’m stupid enough to believe that a pair of socks represents the glorious navajo people.

In fact… I’m sitting here cracking up because this whole thing is about socks… hahaha.

@LKJSlain@xanga - First, like I said, the difference in things being considered racist/etc. is oppression. Yes, all people have been oppressed in some way or another, but that doesn’t make their oppression ongoing, which some oppression in America is, including Native Americans.
Oriental isn’t a word that should be used, and I can’t give you a word to replace it with and I can’t be an authority on that because I don’t know enough about it or have enough information and experience with it.

What makes something offensive? Generally, someone being offended by it. If someone is offended the thing to do is APOLOGIZE and attempt to change that behavior. If someone has a valid reason for being offended (as in, a reason they can explain and isn’t just “one time someone called me that in a derogatory way so now no one can say it” something like “that is a word with a history included xyz”) then you should stop using the offensive word. (That’s why the name of these were changed, because they were informed that it was offensive!)

Another problem is the idea of racism/prejudice being the same thing. People use the words interchangeably, but prejudice is not the same. Racism involves having the power and privilege to oppress someone.
It applies with religions, as well. You used the Atheist/Christian example, but prejudice against Atheists is not the same as Christians because Christians are the ones with religious privilege and are the oppressors in this case.
It’s the same reason prejudice against white people is prejudice and not racism. White people are the ones with power, and you can’t be “racist” against white people you can only be prejudiced.

And just as a final note on the sock thing: it’s not specifically about the socks encompassing an entire culture, it’s about the print being an all-encompassing “native” thing as though “native american” is one specific culture, when there are a variety of cultures which is what people don’t often realize.

@theflowerstem@xanga - I have no problem respecting others without the use of political correctness. Wouldn’t “a group of people different from my own” include race? I’m talking about political correctness in general. 

@LKJSlain@xanga - the problem is, intent doesn’t matter. not everyone is going to know your intentions are good, and “you’re going to offend someone” isn’t a good reason to be okay with being as offensive as you’d like. and no, it’s naive to think “no one is going to think this way because i don’t.” people DO think that way (the same way people don’t know wearing a headdress is wrong because it’s sacred, or don’t know that “red skin” is a slur, and even people don’t know that it’s not okay to call native americans “savage” because of pocahontas) and people aren’t educated about it. do you know how much of so many other cultures’ struggles is just glazed over in history classes and do you realize how many native tribes aren’t even considered and people don’t know they exist?
it doesn’t make someone “dumb” to not know things about natives, it means they haven’t been educated on the matter the same way people don’t know everything about other cultures.
another reason it’s offensive and “asian” isn’t is because “asians” (separate groups of asians, or all) weren’t and aren’t currently oppressed the way native americans were and are. natives are STILL oppressed whereas asians aren’t widely oppressed even if there is some racial insensitivity towards them.
the level of oppression is what makes a big difference.

so yes, people are going to be offended either way. that’s no excuse not to allow people or yourself to be educated about WHY people are offended.
this isn’t about socks, this is about people and their cultures.
this isn’t about judging and saying “the rest of the world will view this in such a way” this is about “this is inaccurate and no one is saying anything about how wrong it is and no one even realized my culture is a living culture currently” because this is “navajo” inspired, which most people will view as an extinct culture.
and i’m sorry if you experience prejudice everyday, but that doesn’t make this better or worse. one experience of prejudice or offense doesn’t eliminate or invalidate another, this is still wrong.

@RealistFantasies@xanga - But since someone doesn’t know my intentions are bad should they jump to that conclusion?

Please tell me – what is everyone supposed to do every time someone is offended? I’m sorry, but like I said, people don’t look at the pattern that way. They don’t see it as “all encompassing” …

Every single culture has been oppressed at certain times in history. Not just the Navajo people.

YOU are saying that if I said the word asian someone wouldn’t be offended… however, the REALITY is that I have physically SEEN someone who is asian offended by referring to something as ASIAN… which is exactly my point. Someone will be upset regardless of WHAT we call things because they’ll cry stereotype and horror, and “my people” etc.

How are we supposed to live in a world when every time someone calls something by a name, or says that something is inspired or styled, or etc someone gets offended and we’re all supposed to just change it?

SOME things are very obvious and I could understand, other things are not so much, and when people get offended it’s often difficult to understand why.

I’m sorry it just is.

You can argue back and forth with me if you want but as I said before, no one believes that a “print” on a “pair of socks” encompasses an entire people…

In fact, in some cases (like my own) the word “navajo” in regards to this print has actually inspired me to read up about their people (as I’ve done earlier today and yesterday) and learn more about them… I’d say “reccomend” this comment if it’s done the same for you.

Btw, I never once stated that anything that I said made it “okay” to offend someone purposefully, or to remain ignorant about it. There are indeed things that are offensive and I would try and steer away from them at all costs, other things are difficult to understand because they are entirely thrown around…

Ex- For instance… I was in the mall the other day, and two young women who to the best of my observation were “Japanese” said something about something being “oriental…” (again… rug? What do we do about oriental rugs? A rug is something we trample on with or feet…surely Asians should be very upset about calling something like that oriental) And then proceeded to describe something that they were looking at as being “Italian…”  >_>

Okay, so why is it okay for them to say it, and then refer to something in another culture as being a certain way, but not everyone else? Because people throw these words, descriptors, etc around I think it becomes confusing.

If it is absolutely without a doubt evil (for instance) to say the world “oriental” then NO ONE should EVER say the world oriental (and that includes asians)… ? Yes? Same thing with other offensive words? Yes?

It’s confusing to me. I will definitely agree with you that the word oriental should not be used – but then what are we to do about oriental rugs? What are we to do about atheists who are offended by the sight of a cross? Or Christians who are offended by the sight of a pentagram? How are we to handle this?

I’m really NOT trying to be rude here, I’m really trying to understand what you think should be done.

Here’s what I see the problem as being – everyone looks at a group that they really don’t give a flip about and shrug their shoulders and say, “Eh, they’re just balking at nothing…grow a pair” (I see it every day,even on here) but, at the same time those people who told that group that they were whiners and needed to grow a pair will ALSO stand up for something that they see in a different group that they think is injustice (which the group that needs to grow a pair might look at as being absolutely ridiculous)… which is not balanced… We should always try to stand up for our fellow man and woman regardless of who they are and try to come to an understanding/agreement.

I would like to cap this comment by saying that Urban Outfitters DID actually change the name of the socks to “printed”… I don’t know if you knew that. ?

You know, political correctness, as a whole, just pisses me off.  I do NOT go out of my way to be offensive, and neither do most mature people.  That being said, this is my (offensive) example of political correctness:

*sharpens and barbs a stick*

*shoves it up your ass*

Ok, now I’ll remove the stick if you ask me to.  I will. I just have one *little* problem.  You can’t use these words.  These words make me angry, and I’ll kick you if you say them:

bar, bat, baton, billet, birch, bludgeon,board,branch, cane,club, cudgel, drumstick, ferrule, ingot, mast, rod,rule,ruler,shoot, slab, slat,staff,stake,stalk, stave,stem,strip,switch, timber, twig, wand, wedge
batten, billet,boom, crossbar, crosspiece, ingot, lever, paling,pig, pole, rail, rib,rule,shaft, slab, spar, spoke, stake, stick,streak,strip, stripe,stroke
ass, backside,behind, buns,butt*, buttocks, cheeks, derriere, fanny, gluteus maximus, heinie, keister, posterior, seat
arrow, bristle, dart, prickle, prong, quill, shaft, spike, spur, thistle, thorn
barb, cant hook, clapperclaw, crook, fang, fingernail, grapnel, grappler, hook, manus, nail claw, nipper, paw, pincer, retractile, spur, talon, tentacle, unguis, ungula

I’m tired of the loudmouthed thin-skinned minority making my life difficult.  If it looks Asian, I’m gonna call it asian. I don’t say it’s food from somewhere that’s somewhere around the globe other than here.  I take my wife out to a nice Asian, American, Indian, Thai, or Vegetarian dinner.  God forbid I call something what it is for the sake of clarity.

Don’t bother replying to this.  I don’t stick around and try to argue my perspective, I just say my bit and leave, because ‘my bit’ doesn’t NEED to be supported.  I want clarity in my communications.  It’s hard enough to live with the rest of the world without some easily offended ass trying to make my life more difficult by telling me that some previously inoffensive (and merely descriptive) term is something I can’t use anymore.

Like I said, I don’t often TRY to be offensive, I mostly just try to get along with everyone- it’s just that this, in particular drives me up the figurative wall.

End Story.

@RealistFantasies@xanga - I’m not going to continue on the vein of the original post, but instead comment on something else that you’ve said here-

When you talk about the Christian atheist thing I think you should know a few things.

BOTH sides are quite possibly EQUALLY opressed.

Being a Christian, I can tell you how much abuse, slander, negativity, and even ATTACKS have come at me merely for being a believer- I don’t even need to say WHAT I believe exactly, there is instantly a backlash/hatred towards me. I’ve been called derrogatory names, I’ve been cursed at, I’ve been told I’m stupid, believe in loony toons, I could tell you things that would make your head spin that atheists have said to me without me saying any more than, “I’m a believer in Christ” –

You should also know that RIGHT NOW my Christian brothers and sisters in different countries are being tortured, multilated and put to death for the simple fact that they believe in Jesus. Many are forced to hide, or put down their own faith lest they be sent to prison. Some missionary friends of ours went to China to try and help people THERE… it was QUITE a story.

As far as atheists… unfortunately, I KNOW that they are opressed at TIMES… but in reality? I don’t really see it. I see many people supporting them (for instance, look at the atheists on this site) as compared to those who are blatantly Christian.

That being said, I’m not quite sure what it is that you think Christians are opressing anyone about… >_>

@LKJSlain@xanga - I’m going to stick to oppression in America, since I don’t know much about elsewhere.
The difference between oppression of Atheists and prejudice against Christians is that Christians are the ones in power in America. There are laws against people holding office if they’re openly Atheistic, and they’re the most highly distrusted minority group in America.
Oppression, I think I touched on before, is the idea of prejudice combined with power, whereas prejudice doesn’t include power, it’s just prejudice plain and simple. I don’t disagree that Christians are verbally abused for their beliefs, but they are the major religion in America. Most Americans openly say they would be less likely to vote an Atheist into office, which automatically puts religious people, particularly Christians, in positions of power.
The problems that Atheists face, particularly in less liberal areas, can be extreme (children being abandoned/disowned, kicked out of schools, etc.) whereas that is less likely to happen to Christians.

@RealistFantasies@xanga - I disagree with some of this. I’ve seen many things happen in public schools to poor innocent children simply because they said that they were Christian, etc.

I’m not sure where you live exactly, but I don’t think that where I’m at there’s a LAW about atheists being in any official position. I DO know that most Americans say that they are distrusting of atheists and I think that’s sad. I think that I WOULD be more likely to vote Christian, however, if I felt the atheist had more morals, I’d probably be more willing to  vote for them.

As far as it being the “major” religion –

Here’s the problem with that statement. They’re really not. In fact, the ammount of true, bible believing Christians in America is on the downward spiral…

The problem here is that many Americans will SAY that they are Christian without truly knowing what that even means. They think that believing in “God” makes them a Christian. It really doesn’t. The more I see people on TV (and even people who have been presidents, etc) talk about “what” they actually believe, the more I realize that they’re not really a ”bible believing” christian. (They are most likely – )  
The religion that is REALLY most prominent is New Age (I don’t know if you know anything about that or are familiar with it) in which people often mix Christian teachings, ideas, a belief in a god of some kind and lots of other beliefs, ideas. It’s more open, less about the bible (in fact, many people who say “Oh yeah, I’m Christian” will often openly REJECT most of what’s in the bible as truth… which in fact means that they are NOT Christian) … 

When they do the polls, a lot of people will mark “Christian” but does that mean that they believe in what a Christian believes in order to be a Christian? Most often? No. Almost every time I get into a conversation with a ”Christian” they will proceed to tell me a slew of other things that they believe that have nothing to do with the religion at all. 

Unfortunately, a lot of these “weirds” are giving church goers a bad name because they also often look off their loony bin. haha.

New Age is definitely on the rise, and it is often categorized as “Christian”

@theflowerstem@xanga - The fact of the matter is that people are over sensitive. One cannot walk around treading on eggshells around people who feel oh-so discriminated against.

When something isn’t meant offensivly it isn’t meant offensivly.

@theflowerstem@xanga - Thanks, i do understand now. Yet still in tourist shops and places, we might see “Eastern European pattern” even though it might be orginally specificly only from Cluj. From bigger business or something maybe it says “Russian design.” Although that would be very wrong and we would very much like to be as separate from Russia in every way (as the nearby countries agree as well.) Yet I feel that most people understand that we have a very complex history of etnicities and nations with all their own differences. Although it would be great to see people from France or USA know a lot about our region and people, I don’t at all expect someone from there to be an expert. If they are interested, I share but I wouldn’t be offended.

However, I also realise that Native Americans in the US deserve very much to be part of sharing their culture and that just taking advantage of their folklore design is another hit at them, which is inconsiderate.

Oh pssshhh, people get offended way too easily these days. 

@orionkiller@xanga - You obviously don’t know what being politically correct means, you should educate yourself on that before you respond to me again.

@a_girl_with_a_pen@xanga - Yup. I’m glad someone gets it.

@Nushirox2@xanga - The fact of the matter is, people are ignorant and don’t want to educate themselves. They believe everyone else should put up with their outdated, stupid and/or offensive language when that isn’t the case. You call them overly sensitive and I call people who say that uneducated.

@one_thousand_to_1@xanga - An education in race relations would definitly help you.

@theflowerstem@xanga - The avoidance of forms of expression or action that are perceived to exclude, marginalize, or insult certain groups of people.

conforming to a belief that language and practices which could offend political sensibilities (as in matters of sex or race) should be eliminated.
I looked it up before I started in… I know what it means in the dictionary and I know how it functions in society. Do you have an example of your personal definition? Because when you say respect, I think of something other than the dictionary’s definition of political correctness. Politically correctness is what makes an employer have to lie about not hiring me because of my long hair. It’s what allows any black person to cry racism if I say I disagree with anything Obama says or does.( I do not care that he’s black, it’s his politics that I can’t stand.) Political correctness makes us treat every other average and not suspicious citizen like terrorists at airports while we let a man who looks suspicious who happens to be black or dark go because the airport doesn’t want a lawsuit. Political correctness demands that I feel bad about being a wealthy american when there are millions of Africans to poor to live and dying every day when it’s just not my problem. (For the record, I spent a month in South Africa passing out blankets and food in the slums. It didn’t effect my lifestyle here in america at all.) Political correctness is a social device that keeps harsh truths unsaid and elephants in the room from being addressed. I do not have anything against any race as a whole and don’t go around saying offensive things. I do hold some opinions about groups of people that are offensive to some races, but a good portion of the same race either isn’t offended by the same remark or agrees with my view. These groups of people usually include most, if not all races and it’s only politically incorrect because I’m white. 

@theflowerstem@xanga - Okay miss-politically correct. How else do you suppose one refers to the “Oriental” people.

@orionkiller@xanga - This is the second time you’ve proven to me that you don’t understand what being politically correct means. You were stupid enough to compare it to situtations where it doesn’t even fit and think that I’m stupid enough to believe it. Just admit it, you want to be openly racist and you don’t want blacks (or any other ethnic group that isn’t white) to fight back.

@Nushirox2@xanga - You are such a moron and you don’t even know it.

@theflowerstem@xanga - Then please enlighten me oh learned one… By the way, I did ask you for your definition… I have nothing against any race of people. I judge everyone as an individual with no bias towards race. Have I said anything that says I think my race is better than anyone else’s? Would me saying that I’m stronger than you physically because I’m a man and you’re a woman be politically incorrect, even if it’s scientific fact for most of the global population? How about me asking a black man if he’s been checked for diabetes or heart disease lately? Or asking a man from the middle east of he’s blown anything up recently? Are you confusing racist comments with politicallyincorrect ones? Not that I think this way, and it’s just an example, but would saying that all black people all ghetto-retards who’ll never amount to anything because they’re not as good as everyone else be racist or politically incorrect? Is answering the door the a Chinese food delivery guy and using a Asian accent racist or politically incorrect? Is it racist to stop an average american woman in an airport, search her bag and her person, making sure to embarrass her, while letting the guy in front of her go who was praying an Islamic prayer, wearing traditional garb and acting WAY to nervous? How about a cop asking a man who won’t speak English to prove his legal residency, racist or politically incorrect? I think I know racism when I see it. I have relatives who are racist and openly so. It really bothers me when they let it shine through.

 Maybe try addressing what I’ve said and explaining how I’m wrong instead of just calling me stupid this time? If all you’re going to do is call me stupid then you’re just going to make yourself look like a royal bitch and prove me right.

@orionkiller@xanga - I’ve already given you some ideas and you ignored them.

No, you never gave me your definition or any examples… I just read everything you’ve said to me. No definitions or examples there. You did say that I was only talking about groups of people and not races and thenproceeded to call me racist and stupid a few more times… I can copy and paste everything you’ve said to me and there aren’t any examples or personal definitions in there… Other than respect, which is a very abstract term and isn’t helpful…

@theflowerstem@xanga - If you care so much about being politically correct and not offending people maybe you shouldn’t be calling people names on the internet. It seems a little hypocritical to me as the ideology behind not saying things like “oriental” is the same as the ideology behind insulting people/

@orionkiller@xanga - My definition? How about going by what the word actually means instead of putting your own spin on it, that’s why you’re not understanding me because you keep twisting things.

@Nushirox2@xanga - Explain to me how your thought process isn’t moronic.

@theflowerstem@xanga - Still dodging the question of your deffinition… 

I know the actual definition of it is to hold the view that saying anything that could single out or offend any group or race of people is wrong and should be avoided. I find this view flawed. It’s far to easy for oversensitive people to carry this much further than it ought to be and have ground to stand on. In doing so it creates a society in which the average (not just white) person must guard everything they say to make sure they don’t say the wrong thing in front of the wrong person, for fear of being labeled racist or prejudice for a comment that had no ill will toward anyone. Political correctness can easily create situations in which someone can’t be offended by the actions of a group of people or individual for fear of it being seen as racism or, again, prejudice. Let’s say I’m applying for a job in my field, I go on a panel interview and everything is going fine until one of my interviewers sees I’m home schooled, doesn’t like it and begins to suggest that I’m not properly qualified, even that I’m not actually educated, though I have a college degree, passed physics without a fucking calculator and have a 3.41 gpa. I know that’s not amazing or anything but it does say that I’m properly educated. Now lets say he sways the rest of the group to feel the same way and begin to infer that I’m not equally educated and therefore inadequate due to me being home schooled. Which is wrong and unfortunately falls under politically incorrect. I prefer to call it being an asshole and a retard…My natural and proper reaction would be to be offended, defend myself, even get mad and point some fingers back. That would be just fine if the men interviewing me were white. In that setting I can say that the fact that “you people” are too fucking retarded to see a smart kid when one is sitting in a chair in front of you is fucking bullshit and you should be ashamed of yourselves. In a room of any other race of people, not so much. The moment the words “you people” come out of my mouth, I’m easily labeled racist. Not that the comment had anything to do with race but because pussies love to hide behind political correctness, they can put any words they want into my mouth. 
Do you know how many times I’ve been talking to a friend who’s a different race and they play that card on me as a joke? Really? Even when it’s all in good fun and they’re really stretching what I said, I still have to worry if what I said actually offended them because it’s far to easy to twist words and keep it under the protection of political correctness and all it takes is one racist asshole with a bone to pick against any race but his so long as he’s not white, to fuck us all over. The idea of political correctness is too abstract and pliable. Do I think it’s ok to go around saying racist shit, no! By all means no, racism isn’t ok. The problem comes with overly sensitive and unjustly bitter people who fully intend to abuse their right to be treated equally and call people on REAL bullshit.
 If I call a black guy a nigger, an asian a chink, a southern-native-american a wet-back, or a german a kraut, I’m being racist. If I call a black guy with his pants at his knees, gang bandanna, 3 hats, a grill, an attitude that says it’s completely ok for me to rebel against every form of common decency, and break any law he sees fit cause he’s “hard”, if I call him a punk-ass ghetto-bitch, I’d be right. If I say that to him, I’m a racist piece of shit. That is an offensive belief that I hold against ANYONE who fits that description, I’ve met plenty of whit guys who I’d call the same. That one has nothing to do with race and everything to do with thinking it’s ok to act like that, which seems to be something that every race has adopted. Yes it would be politically incorrect for me to say it. In that instance I’m singling that group of people out and intentionally offending them, but I’m still right, and to reiterate, that one has absolutely nothing to do with race.