Lovelyish

that is kinda disturbing when you think about it. but oh well, it doesnt really do any harm

yeah. A little children-of-the-cornesque. Creepy fuckers, chanting shit! Ban it and make them distribute free labor instead. YES

Hah, yeah I’ve thought that several times.

I’ve never thought of it like that but it kinda makes sense. And no, I don’t think kids should be forced to recite it in class. I don’t even think they should be forced to stand up for it. I had a teacher who took that so seriously and it would piss me off so much.

I do not think it is creep at all. The flag represents America and so long as you believe in the ideals of America it’s not creepy. Also, as far as I know no one in any school is required to say the pledge under pain of death which is how it would have been if you were in Soviet Russia. You can’t really compare the two.

I couldn’t agree more.  I stopped saying it in middle school and never got any shit about it till high school.  I had an ex-marine for a teacher and he tried to force me to say it and attempted to alienate me when I refused.  The school smelled lawsuit and reigned him in pretty quickly.  My main issue is the “under god” line, accompanied by the ingraining it into children who have no idea what they’re saying.

Now that you mention it . . . 

I stopped saying it in middle school just because I noticed it had the word “God” in it and I don’t believe in God, and we weren’t required to say it so I figured it couldn’t be that important. And yeah, when you think about it, it is pretty creepy to have all these little kids saying this every day, but at the same time, they don’t realize it and it’s easy for them to stop saying it, so I’m sure it’s fine!

Yeah…I’ve wondered about that, too.

I don’t think the problem is that kids say it in school; the problem is that they aren’t taught the meaning of their words.  Pledging loyalty to your nation is not creepy, but being a bunch of drones is.  Personally, I always omitted the word God.  This isn’t a theocracy.

I think they learn about it when they learn about the American Revolution… I remember going over it in “history class” in elementary school. I think it should be explained before everyone’s forced to say it.

I stopped reciting the pledge in like seventh grade

I honestly don’t see what’s so wrong with teaching our children to love and respect their country.  By saying the pledge to the flag, kids are taught said love for America.  But like someone above commented, the kids actually need to have it explained to them, either by the schools or their parents, what the Pledge actually means.  My husband has spent all of this year so far on deployment, serving his country, which he loves and respects and would die for.  I don’t see what’s so bad about asking the children of this country to love the land so many men and women in uniform have died for.  That’s my opinion, anyway.

In high school, my french teacher told us how french-exchange students he knew would get freaked out(for the first time, at least) when, every kid stood up, turned to the flag, and started pledging to it. So I guess it is kinda creepy

i always found it disturbing.  how can you expect children to understand the meaning of the pledge?  isn’t making them say it demeaning the oath to begin with?  

our high school does it every friday morning. most teachers force us to do it, or we get sent to the office. luckily, my first hour teacher doesn’t force us to. he doesn’t either. because it’s creepy and i think it’s completely weird pledging my life away to a country. 

@ChicaLaLoca@xanga - You’re confusing “love” with “brainwashed servitude”.  But as you later pointed out, your husband is in the military, so he clearly worships the government and you do as well.  On a semi-related note, serving the government is NOT the same thing as serving the country.

This is easy enough to rectify. Parents should explain to their kids what they’re reciting and why they’re reciting it.

“Pledging allegiance” doesn’t mean being a slave to the country. It merely states that you love your country enough to WANT to be loyal to it.

@daffodils_n_diamonds@xanga - Uh….no.  Listen to the words – does it say “I want to…” at any point?  No.  There is no difference at all between the pledge of allegiance and any pledges / chants recited by kids in the Soviet Union or the Hitler Youth.

I think that if you are unwilling to pledge loyalty to the flag and the country then you should get out. Obviously, that’s not an option for middle and high schoolers, but I hope those who refuse to say it leave immediately after graduating. If you aren’t loyal enough to the country to speak these words then make room for someone who is.

I will agree, however, that omitting “under God” is acceptable for those who are non-religious.

It’s funny how they make kids recite it EVERYDAY, like once isn’t enough? it’s a pledge- K so I’m pretty sure that’s from Seinfeld, but what evs right?

@wonderchica22@xanga - Yea, America should be reserved for the brainless zombies who are obedient to their masters in D.C.!

*note* That was sarcasm….

@wonderchica22@xanga - Or we could just stay here and live our happy little lives without taking our home so damn serious. I’m pretty content living in America, I guess. I don’t hate America but I also don’t cream my panties at the thought of it, I know there is possibly better places to live but I’m perfectly fine living here. Why do we have to be loyal to any country? It’s just a country, all most people want is a damn place to call home…

No one is made to recite the Pledge of Allegiance (see West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette). 

A lot of people forget that the author of the pledge we read Francis Bellamy was interested in promoting national pride because he wanted a national socialism.
He was also kind of racist. On the first day he presented the pledge, he also went on a tirade about how it’s our anglo-saxon ancestry that makes us great.

His cousin Edward Bellamy specifically envisioned a military inspired national socialism. I’m not sure if Bellamy’s was particularly military inspired though. 
But it’s really interested when one notes that many of the movements going on world wide–toward national socialism, militarism and ethnic cleansing were factors that influenced the penning of the pledge our students read and what influenced the formation of the Nazi party in Germany.

I’m not saying Bellamy was a Nazi but it’s an important lesson to remember that our people need to be careful to not be overrun by similar nuts.
Don’t take my word for it on any of this though.
You can read “To the Flag”  by Richard J. Ellis for a detailed history of the pledge we use and the other pledges that initially competed with it. 

It’s not creepy. It’s patriotism.

How about explaining it in a way the kids can comprehend…? I’m all for the pledge but I also think you need to have an idea of what you’re saying.

I always understood it. Maybe it’s just your school lol.

It’s called indoctrination. It’s how people stay in power.

@TallandThinIsBetter@xanga - indoctrinated patriotism is scary :-/

As a Brit, I find the entire concept terrifying, honestly. It reminds me of Nazi Germany and of Soviet Russia, when people were brainwashed into being loyal to their country. I don’t get it. You guys are American because your families chose to live there and you happened to be born there. You didn’t choose it. Why should you be loyal to a country you didn’t even decide to live in? I mean, I moved to England when I was two, and I love living here, but I wouldn’t “Pledge allegiance” to a random pile of earth I happened to be born on…

“Are you proud to be an American?”

“I don’t know. My parents fucked there. I didn’t really have a lot to do with it.”

I stopped saying the pledge, but my teachers would make me stand up.

Like many of the other commenters, I’ve thought about it too. Its pretty odd.

@BimmerPhile@xanga - Her husband is over there making sure you dont become someones servant later on in life. Do you get to walk the streets freely? Yeah I thought so. So he is serving his country. Him and thousands of other husbands and wives fight over sees so you can have your freedom of speech. So be thankful they love and respect their country cause you get freedom because of it. So that is just my freedom of speech right there. Because her husband and all the other soldiers are giving us that right because of what they do.

Yeah, but you don’t HAVE to say it. You just have to stand to respect people who do believe in it. I’m a middle school teacher, and I insisted they stand, but never forced them to say it. 

@LoveeeLikeASunset@xanga - I think the feeling of loyalty comes from those who are willing to fight for what we’ve got and appreciate it. It is irritating that some Americans care enough about their country to die for it, yet others want to shit on it because they’re ungrateful. It’s like a home where the parents wok their asses off to pay the mortgage and keep it nice yet their bratty kids come along and trash up the place because they don’t understand what it’s like to work hard for what they have. 

It is kind of weird. No, I do not want to pledge my allegiance to a piece of fabric. Americans think they’re superior to every other country. We are all living on earth. It’s just a piece of land. 

@Whatsthat@momaroo - I just don’t think it’s that damn serious.

@written_conversations@xanga - EXACTLY!!! It’s just that Americans have this way of thinking they are so above everybody else, they have such a huge ego. And yes I do appreciate this country a lot, but I wouldn’t say I’m loyal to it. Saying I’m loyal to this country would imply that I would never consider leaving it to live somewhere else, and in the future who knows, I may decide to live in another country. If that makes me a terrible person, oh well I don’t give a crap

I suppose I can see your point about it seeming a little weird, but I think that stems from the fact that you (along with most other kids) didn’t actually know what the pledge means or what it stands for. And while your teachers are by no means innocent on that issue, why did you never take the time to dig a little deeper and find out what you were saying? If you were uncomfortable or had a problem with it, it was really your responsibility to do a little research, wasn’t it?

When I taught elementary school a few years ago, we made it a point to go over the pledge, line by line, so that we could understand what it means. Although, 4 year olds are going to have trouble with the entire concept, no matter how I explain it, because their minds aren’t capable of thinking about abstract concepts yet… So my explanations to them might have been for nothing.

I am a little offended that some residents refuse to say the pledge, quite frankly. If you aren’t going to promise loyalty to the US, I’d honestly prefer you leave the country. America has been under attack and constant criticism, and I don’t trust anyone who doesn’t at least claim love and loyalty for our country. Instead, though, thousands upon thousands of your fellow citizens fight daily for you to have the right REFUSE to say the pledge. It isn’t creepy to recite a pledge; it’s patriotism and pride for the great country to which you belong.

What bugs me even worse, though, is when people are disrespectful during the pledge. I’ll live with the fact that not every one has to say it because we’re a free country. But there’s no reason to be disrespectful during it. Although I’m still considered “a young person,” I strongly feel that my peers and the generations after me are completely clueless as to what “respect” is. Any person who isn’t standing, has his/her iPod earphones in, is texting, or is communicating in any other way besides speaking the pledge while the rest of the crowd is reciting it is being disrespectful in my eyes. (I feel that it works the same way for the National Anthem.)

It’s creepy to recite it all together, every day (I thought about it recently one day), but I don’t think it’s creepy for a child to recite the pledge.  I knew what I was saying.  I mean, maybe not the whole ‘pledging allegiance’ thing, but I knew that it was for our country & I’m a part of it   I don’t know, it’s hard to explain.  Point is, I don’t find it creepy.

@ashlindsey84@momaroo - No, he’s not.  Nothing going on in the current wars has ANYTHING to do with our freedom, nor has any war in the last 100 years other than the Pacific Theater in WWII after the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor.  It’s purely about “We don’t like your race / religion / politics so we’re going to invade you and rape / kill your citizens until you bow to the American Empire” – then people like you wonder why the world hates the US so much.  Not to mention that we’re bankrupting our country due to this Imperialist idiocy (seriously, look at budget deficits year after year and military spending is the primary cause).

Again, not one damn thing any of them has done has anything to do with our rights.  Were we threatened with invasion?  No.  Was there any country that was capable of taking over the US (China could if they wanted) talking about invading?  No.  It was a handful of morons who killed a handful of people (seriously, about .001% of the US population died in the WTC – far more people than that die each year in car accidents….I suppose you think we need the military to wage a Ware Against Vehicles?)

It saddens me every time I see another person brainwashed into thinking that they’re attacking people for little to no reason “to protect our freedoms”.  If you actually believed that load of crap, why aren’t you signed up?

@AubreyBird@xanga - this

I think the feelings people have behind it is what’s creepy. I should get out if I don’t want to pledge undying allegiance for one country? What if I like the country but also love other countries just as much? Why should I pledge allegiance to one but not others? Nationalism is such a fun topic. And growing up in the military, that’s pretty much the vibe you get. You either love America and say the pledge unfailingly without altering it or you leave the country…how about no and I express the freedom we claim to love? How about that instead? How about we don’t teach our kids to be mindless drones and instead let them choose if they want to say it?

@xa06@xanga - No but have you ever been on the receiving end when someone realizes you don’t say the pledge? You are told you are being unpatriotic (and unpatriotic after 9/11 has become as bad as being a terrorist to many people especially if you’re around the military) or that you should move, even if you don’t have the means to move to another country because of age or financial status or a job conflict. I have had people yell at me for being “ungrateful” (how they get this I don’t know; I love being in a top country) even though other countries really don’t have you do the same thing to prove you are grateful for the life you have. It’s very alienating and all because you don’t want to recite the pledge that is similar to indoctrination tactics.

I don’t think it’s creepy, but I do think it should be recited in its previous form. In fact, that’s how I recite it.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America. And to the republic, for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

@rafi09@xanga - Yes, I actually have been … and by a US History teacher at that. As alienating as it might be, it is even worse to completely disregard your personal convictions just to satisfy those who are closed minded and so willing to discriminate against and disrespect your beliefs. There is a sense of cowardice that accompanies mindless conformity when you pander to others for their acceptance rather than realizing the value of your own independence/free thinking. If I choose to exercise my right of not reciting the pledge, then I will do so based on personal principles while overlooking judgment by anyone else as an influence.

Interestingly enough, the phrase “under God” that a lot of people point out as being particular troublesome was an addition to the pledge in the 50s… it isn’t in the original version.

I do also think it is noteworthy to question the idea of pledging allegiance to a flag.  I understand the symbolism… but without that, a flag is a non-thinking, non-reasoning entity with no real intrinsic value or admirable architecture.  And how many grade schoolers can reconcile symbolism at all, much less on the scale of an entire nation?

When I lived abroad they would get PISSED that I didn’t cross my heart to their flag, but it WASN’T MY COUNTRY.

I have a new respect for the American flag. That other country never gave me the rights to buy things or have services their citizens did (like to own a smart phone, buy concert tickets, eat at certain restaurants, or shop at certain stores or apply for certain jobs), so why should I show it equal respect to my own?

If you have a problem with the “god” part, then don’t say it. But realize that you’re less of a person in another country.

Wow.  This really disturbs me.  

DOWN WITH AMERICA

I refuse to recite it. My God has my allegiance. What the flag stands for can change on the drop of a hat.

Yeah, I think the pledge is a form of brain-washing..

I remember liking that it was 30 seconds of the day where I didn’t have to think.

@pikaaa - Same here.It is kind of creepy, looking back on it. I stopped saying it in elementary school because I figured I’d pledged my allegiance enough times. :/

@wonderchica22@xanga - Hahaha… Make me leave, then! I was born here, I have every right to be here just as much as anyone else. Just because I stopped repeating that stupid pledge in third grade doesn’t mean anything. You sound like some little kid dictating who can be in their club or something. Sorry, you don’t get to just kick people out of the country in which you live, just because they did something you don’t like.

I don’t think there is anything wrong with this.  Sure, it is pretty creepy, standing up and reciting words to a flag.  The meaning behind it isn’t wrong though.  We are giving a pledge to our country, freedom, men and women who risked their lives for us… I actually was taught the meaning behind the pledge in about 3-4th grade.  My teacher went through and explained everything to us.  I guess they don’t do this in all schools.

Also, no one is being forced to say the pledge.  I forget which act it is, but I know that there was a court case about the topic.  It was ruled that students/teachers don’t have to take part in the pledge if it goes against their beliefs.  Personally, I think that you should recite the pledge.  If you want to be American, you must recite the pledge. (Well unless it possibly goes against your religion)  It takes less than a minute to say.  It isn’t like we are pledging our life away to a country, it is just showing respect for our country.  That isn’t so bad.  I will say a simple pledge in return for freedom.  

I don’t know anyone who became indoctrinated into anything because they said the pledge of allegiance at school.

I lip synced to this like britney lip syncs to most of her songs at school all the time I like singing the…my country tis of thee song more:D I sang that when I was in elementary school. the pledge of allegiance started in middle to high school. they should maybe switch it up to one day song and one day pledge.

@BimmerPhile@xanga - even brainless zombies understand sarcasm….

My teachers actually took the time to explain it, and not one of them ever forced us to get up and say it if we didn’t want to.

Shoot, if you live in America, you SHOULD pledge allegiance to this country. Otherwise, get out. Most of the pledge is pretty self-explanatory and maybe I was just lucky, but I had several teachers over the years make sure to teach the class about the pledge and what it meant and that we ad the right to not say it if we wanted.