Lovelyish

See, this is why I refuse to take any women’s studies class.

Guilt, guilt, more guilt.

You can totally whine about this to me when you live in a country where rape is considered just a normal thing that happens to all women, incest is wrong but also normal, and where people think women who get beaten up most certainly deserve it.

The U.S. is extremely progressive in this sense. Although if those republicans keep getting power…

I agree about not blaming the victim and putting the blame where it belongs, but we cannot allow not wanting to blame the victim to deter us from pointing out when women engage in actions that substantially increase their risks.  Don’t walk alone at night in certain areas, don’t do things that make you look like a victim, etc etc.  And, as much as we don’t want to acknowledge it, I do think that dress impacts a violator’s victim selection.  If we cannot recognize the distinctions between advising risk reduction and blaming, we are going to avoid giving the advice that might save a young woman from victimization.

I completely agree with you!

@Lost_Muse@xanga - Having been through abuse of several kinds, I attend a support group that includes women who were raped at various ages. Want me to tell them that how they dressed made them get attacked? Most of the women I know personally in that group have dressed somewhat modestly their entire lives. I think it is ignorant to tell a woman that maybe she should cover up to prevent rape. I do agree however that walking alone at night is not smart for anyone. 

I think rapists are psychopaths that aren’t going to stop being criminal animals because their parents told them when they were young, “now honey, make sure when you go out tonight you don’t take any girls by force.” I think we all know perfectly well that murder is wrong. And yet it happens because of twisted people. We do not live in a “murder culture,” now do we?

So-called “slut-shaming” is completely unrelated to rape, and frankly I think it is a stupid concept. People have the freedom to do what they like, within their own moral boundaries. But I live my life the way I do because I feel it is the right way to go about it. I don’t really care if other people find their repulsive behavior to be acceptable, because I sure don’t, and I don’t mind making it known. When something is wrong in my eyes, I will not tolerate it or “accept” it as just “personal preference.”

I think “slut culture” is a far more insidious problem. I know girls who open their legs to a different frat guy every Thursday night because they are broken and lonely and don’t know how to find closeness in a healthy way. I am sure there are girls who just like sex and don’t care who knows it, but I am not sure the majority of sluts — yeah, I said it — are merely embracing their sexual freedoms for the sake of personal empowerment.

And people need to realize that rape is about control, not sex.  If there are issues in America about this, I can only imagine how much worse people feel in countries where this shit is even more commonplace

Blaming the victim is bullshit.  That trash needs to end

To me, this is so meaningLESS. You know what kind of behavior is accepted and not accepted by our society, same with clothes. Why are you trying to fight for women to wear slutty clothes and not be called a slut while doing it?

We’re a culture that teaches “don’t get raped,” instead of “don’t rape.” It doesn’t matter your gender, if you are raped or sexually assaulted, it is NEVER your fault. Hmmm, our culture seems to be teaching us to be aware of the bad guys because we know that people are going to do whatever they want regardless of what the law says so why not inform do gooders to protect themselves? Sometimes, it can be the victims fault, nobody told you to get drunk, dress like a prostitute or put yourself in a circumstance to where you have to be by yourself at 2:00 a.m. Don’t leave your house unlocked and expect someone walking around trying doors to not come in and take something

@Lost_Muse@xanga - I agree with you to a point

I loved this post, but I do want to point out that yes, a girl getting drunk should definitely not be reason for someone to rape her BUT when you’re drunk at a bar you are more vulnerable than other girls who aren’t drunk thus making it easier to target you. I’m in no way making excuses for someone who commits rape, but there are definitely things women can do to try and prevent it from happening to them.

One of my best friends has a lot of guy friends, she’s very outgoing and friendly, she is very into fashion and loves make-up a lot. She gets called a slut often because of her appearance despite the fact that she is still a virgin, has only been in 2 relationships and both were serious. Usually those comments come from people who do not know her. I have met women who dress very conservatively but sleep around all the time. It’s all about the stereotypes we have placed on certain attitudes and appearances. Unless I really know a person, I am not going to make judgements and assumptions about what I certainly don’t know.

@theflowerstem@xanga - ”Sometimes it can be the victims fault”

No. Never.

 And this is a perfect example of rape culture.

Actually rape laws have recently changed (or may still be in the process of changing). If I remember correctly, it does not classify as rape if you are drunk or drugged and someone has sex with you while you are passed out or too under the influence to care. It also does not count as rape if you say no but you don’t physically resist.

Also, I agree that no one should be judged based on how many sexual partners they are into. If a woman wants to sleep with a different guy every month, that’s fine with me AS LONG AS she is safe about it. I have no right to judge there. If she is unsafe about it, I absolutely do have a problem with that and let’s face it, many people aren’t out there being safe, and that spreads STDs and unwanted pregnancy – not good.

@MissAshley - They didn’t change, but it was up for change recently. Thank God it didn’t. Once again, more proof we are living in the midst of a rape culture.

@Resilient_Light@xanga - Having been through abuse of all types, I speak out against it frequently. I have to stand by his comment – dress has an impact, however slight. Is it the main factor? Absolutely not. But who is more likely to be attacked: a girl in a short skirt and breasts-hanging-out top or the girl covered up with jeans and a hoodie? It is all part of being an easy target. It’s easier to assault the girl who is barely covered, rather than the one who isn’t.

@theflowerstem@xanga – It’s not the victims fault. I come from a country where rape is so common it’s accepted. You know how it started? “Sometimes it’s the victim’s fault…”. No. Educate your damn men to act like more than animals. It’s a human right to not live in fear of being assaulted.

I’ve been in countries where women dress very, very provocatively and getting wasted till you can’t walk is very common… but rape wasn’t.  It’s called educating your society to respect people enough to not hurt them. You wanna punch someone sometimes but you don’t, right? Well, men should be taught that they just because they wanna bang someone until they cry, they should not.

@chicbananas@xanga - You actually terribly wrong. The clothes have no impact on whether or not you will be sexually assualted. What has an impact? Having the misfortune of being in a room with a rapist.

@sexliesandcoffee@xanga - Oh ok. Thanks for pointing that out because I wasn’t sure. I think it’s unfortunate in different cases. Say if you were drugged, you can’t defend yourself. And what if a guy has a gun to your head and says, “Try to resist and I’ll blow you away.” What then?

@sexliesandcoffee@xanga - I never once said it was the main reason, and even said it was slight. I’ve spoken to rapists – I have more experience in this field than I want to. I will always agree that if a rapist wants to do it, they’ll do it regardless of situation or clothing. However, many cases are about how easy it is and the less clothing s/he has to peel off, the easier. I have had a rapist flat out tell me, “she was clearly wearing no underwear and I couldn’t resist”. It made me want to vomit, but it brought clarity.

I vaguely recall reading somewhere that a majority of girls who are raped are under the age of 18. If people think it’s vile when a 12-year-old is raped, whether she’s wearing a skirt or not, it makes me wonder why they have no problem with blaming a 20-year-old for her clothing choices.

@CecilliaMarie@xanga - I agree. I don’t drink very often. Very rarely, but when I do, ALWAYS in my home. I do not go to bars for that exact reason. Especially alone! If I were to go, Id go with a friend. A female friend. Someone I can trust and I wouldn’t drink so much that I couldn’t safely make decisions or think. It would be social drinking. But a bar isn’t exactly my idea of fun. I can drink in my home and have just as much fun. But, again, I don’t drink much.

I do think that some girls could tone it down on what they wear. But to each their own. However, I think a lot of girls should have more dignity and self respect. Girls can feel pretty without flaunting themselves and showing skin. And personally, I rather have a guys attention for other reasons than what I am wearing and how I look.

While there are some girls out there who are very revealing, and promiscuous. And some may consider them acting in a way that asks for it…rape is still NOT okay. Nobody deserves that. And as stated it’s still not her fault. But a very valuable lesson. Us girls still need to protect and respect ourselves. Be cautious of who we are with when drinking, partying, etc. Especially when alone.

@MoonFaeEyryan@xanga - I’ve been in countries where women dress very, very provocatively and getting wasted till you can’t walk is very common… but rape wasn’t. What are the names of these countires? And besides every country has its issues that other countries don’t have or have a very low statistic count of. Also, that line made me think that maybe drunk driving accidents are more common over there, prostitution may be more accepted over there.

I would like to point out that it’s not just girls who are dressed “slutty” that are targets for rape, it’s girls who have easily accessible clothing. So, that would be any type of skirt. Are we going to tell girls to just stop wearing skirts, then? How about pony tails? If a rapists said, “pony tails are easy to grab”, are we going to tell all girls to stop putting their hair up in a pony tail or it’s their fault they got raped? It’s not that they need a short skirt or boobs hanging out, if the clothing is more accessible, a rapist will have an easier time. Last time I checked, it wasn’t just these “slutty” girls wearing any type of skirt or loose clothing.

http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2009/10/rape-culture-101.html

Just going to leave this here for some of you who don’t quite get the severity of rape culture.

@sexliesandcoffee@xanga - Not necessarily. If you left the door to your home unlocked when you know somebody could break in are you not somewhat at fault? If I went outside wearing a micro-mini with a lowcut halter top walking by myself am I not inviting trouble?

Let’s apply this to another example. We’re a culture that teaches “don’t commit crimes” instead of “don’t cruelly imprison and strip of rights”. If you end up getting beaten and raped in jail and come back out to find an unforgiving world where you can’t make it without committing more crime, it’s NEVER your fault. Does that still work for you?

@chicbananas@xanga - And I never once stated that you had said that clothing was a main reason. Rape is about power and control, as you seem to well understand, therefor how are Earth are you still going to sit there and say it has a slight impact. Do you not realize that is STILL placing blame on the victim? It is STILL taking away what the rapist did. With that logic that clothing has a slight impact, why is it that women in countries where most of the women don’t have anything but their eyes showing still are sexually assaulted?

The rapist is to blame, pure and simple.

I agree with everything you said.

Also there are no buts or ifs that excuse rape. I don’t see why people insist on throwing excuses out there for these sexual deviants. But if she did this or if she did that or if he didn’t do this… rape may not of happened. You know, rape just SHOULDN’T happen. Period. No ifs. No buts.

@theflowerstem@xanga - You are free to wear whatever you please. It is sexists and those who support rape and rape culture that make you feel as though you are not allowed to wear what you please. No still means no the last time I fucking checked. Men should be taught DON’T RAPE. And unfortunately, you have bought into rape culture, and I feel sorry for you.

I think people judge the clothing choices of women who choose to wear revealing clothes because it’s seen as in bad taste more than anything. To be honest, most women who dress scantily clad do it because they want to be looked at. I know I have before, not going to lie. Think about it, not many women would get all dolled up and throw on a tight short skirt if they were the last person on Earth, because there’s no one to “show off” for. But I don’t dress like that anymore because I don’t like the type of attention I receive from it but maybe that is a part of the “don’t get raped” ideal. I don’t know. I wouldn’t say they “ask” to be raped or if they do get raped that it is their fault because it’s definitely not, and I think our society does need to teach “Don’t rape” instead, but where do we draw the line? Are we expecting too much when we ask that women should be able to wear whatever they want without fear of some kind of sexual assault or is that exactly what we are trying to achieve here? Or is it wrong to question why a women chooses to wear certain things? Just some questions I think about.

@sexliesandcoffee@xanga - I’m not into rape culture, I’m not going to go do something that is going to make me more of a target for rapists, thieves, car accidents and whatever else.

I’ve always been an advocate of saying its not a woman’s fault if they get raped, but until recently I also advocated the idea that women should avoid vulnerable situations like walking alone at night in dark alleyways scantily clad (etc). I have come to realise these points contradict each other. Woman shouldn’t have to worry about walking alone at night in dark alleyways scantily clad, and shouldn’t be discouraged from doing so. Instead we should be focusing on saying “if you see a woman walking alone at night in a dark alleyway scantily clad, do not rape them!”

You look at Muslim Republics, even if you dress oppressively ‘modest’ where you expose nothing but your eyes, it doesn’t discourage a man’s unwelcome advances because they live in chauvinistic societies where men have all the rights. In our society, we teach men to have self control, but still wrongly place responsibility on the women as well. Face it, women have the right to walk at night alone in dark alleyways scantily clad, and not get raped.

I definitely agree, but I also disagree to an extent.

It’s very hard to explain what caused society to start slut shaming… I mean, it’s been happening for centuries. It’s not a very easy habit to break, especially when there are rumors involved. Imagine, for instance, that you are at a wild party and a guy and a girl are so drunk that they start having sex in the backyard or something. Obviously people are going to be disgusted by it, and they’ll automatically think less (or differently) of the guy and girl. Not to say that EVERYONE would be disgusted, but it would be a majority of the people at the party. Does that mean that either of those two people is a slut?

The answer to that, in my belief, is “maybe.” Just a maybe. Unless you know all about a person’s sex life, you have no idea who they’ve done it with, why they do it, if they use protection, how many times they’ve done it… the list goes on. Now, speaking as someone whose ex-best friend told her about nearly EVERY SINGLE sexual act she had done, I would say that I definitely viewed, and still view her as slutty. I don’t see her as slutty because of the things she did in the past; on the contrary, I think of her as slutty in the present because I KNOW that she’s still sleeping around. She has slept with nearly all of her male friends and continues to do it, even though she’s already contracted HPV and chlamydia. It’s just awful. She hasn’t learned anything from it, and I honestly don’t think she ever will until she winds up pregnant. (She probably won’t because she was a heroin addict and it’s likely that she will never be able to conceive, so she’s able to sleep around forever! YAY! *vomit*) Knowing her personality, though, I would say that she does it because it makes her feel wanted. It makes her feel desired, and she craves that because her self-esteem is so low.

This same girl has claimed that she has been raped twice. I only say “claimed” because the first time it happened, pretty much every single person who was in the vicinity said that she was lying and had sex with the guy consensually. I still don’t know to this day whether it was really rape or not, but she never changed her story and that leads me to believe that maybe she agreed to it at first, but then wanted to stop or something. I have no idea. Anyway, the second time happened recently. I learned of it from a mutual friend of ours, a friend that knows what she’s up to nowadays. He told me that she had gotten drunk at work (she’s an on-and-off stripper) and agreed to hang out with some older men that she didn’t know at one of their homes. It was then that she was raped by one of the men. Again, I don’t know if it was really rape or not, especially now that I’m not her friend anymore.

Think about it for a minute. Who the fuck gets smashed at a strip club, a place that is filled with guys who are ogling your bare breasts and bare ass all night, agrees to hang out with said untrustworthy guys (I’m talking guys in their mid-30s; she’s only 21), and doesn’t expect something sexual to happen? Why would she even go over there in the first place? She had been dancing in her underwear all night with her tits hanging out, and what, she thinks she’s going over there to play Yahtzee? It’s just idiotic.
I’m in no way saying that she’s responsible for being raped – that’s a horrible assumption. However, you have to admit that some girls (I repeat, SOME) who are raped really put themselves in bad positions, much like the one I just described. All rape cases are different, of course, and it all depends on the location, timing, victim, perpetrator, etcetera. Perhaps because she was drunk, somebody else should have stopped her from getting in a car with a bunch of men she didn’t know. 

But that doesn’t make it somebody else’s responsibility. 

She’s 21 years old with years of sexual experience; she should know by now that guys expect sex from her because she so willingly gives it away. It’s not an assumption; if a girl is rumored to be loose, then guys WILL EXPECT HER TO GIVE IN TO THEM. It’s sickening, but true.

I agree that it’s the rapists that need to be reprimanded and not the victims (duh), but some victims do not understand that in order to avoid a rape such as the one I just described, they really need to think about what they’re doing, who they’re with, and where they’re going. Don’t get into a car with a group of men that you don’t know (I think that’s a given). Don’t go alone to a party filled with guys you don’t know/trust and drink so much that you can’t take care of yourself. One time, that same ex-best friend told me that she had had sex with someone she didn’t really want to have sex with, but did anyway. I asked her why she did it if she didn’t want to. She responded with, “I dunno, I was drunk and just made a mistake. Kimberly was there, though, and I really thought that she would try to stop me from having sex with that guy. She knew that I wasn’t into him.”

It’s like… REALLY? There was no reason for her to expect that from Kimberly. Kimberly is not her goddamn mother. It just irks me when girls are so quick to put themselves in compromising situations and then be surprised that they were mistreated. It’s one thing to be date raped or raped by someone you know and trust, but I would hope that it’s an obvious decision to say NO to letting yourself be vulnerable to male strangers, ESPECIALLY if they’re significantly older or YOU MET THEM IN A STRIP CLUB. If you want to get drunk at a bar by yourself, go ahead! But for God’s sake, protect yourself. Take someone with you, or ask the bartender to make sure you don’t go home with anyone. Do something, anything that will protect you from sexual assaults and rape. Don’t walk home alone at 4 in the morning. Don’t leave the bar until you’re sober enough to call yourself a cab. These simple steps can help prevent an unwanted sexual encounter.

Once again, I am NOT saying that the victims are at fault. What I am saying is that women really need to use their common sense. It’s much more beneficial to take steps to protect yourself from rape than scold the rapists and try to teach them otherwise. There are people out there who will simply never change. There are monsters in the world, and most of those monsters will not just stop raping. It’s simply unrealistic to just say, “Hey guys, stop raping! Stop being rapists!” That won’t do jack shit. We need to be doing both of these things equally: educating girls on how to take precaution AND increasing the punishment for convicted rapists/sex offenders.

Not only that, but girls who have been sexually assaulted or raped NEED TO GO TO THE AUTHORITIES IMMEDIATELY. I realize that it is embarrassing and a difficult thing to talk about, but the more rapists are behind bars, the safer we will be. A very large percentage of women who are raped never report it. This is a serious problem and one that needs to be addressed along with the other topics I mentioned.

@theflowerstem@xanga – Belarus, Russia, Ukraine are the ones where women, especially young “hot” women, are nearly naked whenever the weather’s warm, and rape is just something that is real uncommon there, not nearly as bad as where I’m from… you gotta teach people to respect each other.

@Spectrophile@xanga - I’m sorry, but the phrase, ”If you see a woman walking alone at night in a dark alleyway scantily clad, do not rape them!” is ridiculous. That’s like saying, “Don’t eat that huge slab of meat!” to a hungry lion. Anyone who is lurking in an alleyway and attempting to rape or assault a lone woman is not going to follow that advice whatsoever. That will not deter them from raping.

It is simply moronic to walk down a dark alleyway no matter what age or gender you are. It doesn’t matter what you’re wearing. If someone wants to hurt you, they will hurt you. Nothing that the government says will change their mind about that. It’s what the government DOES that will decrease rape. There needs to be more severe punishment.

@theflowerstem@xanga - The only thing that would ever make you a target for a rapist, and I’ve said this about twice in this post, is having the bad luck of being in a room with a rapist.

@SerenaDante@xanga - Hello! This. So much.

@sexliesandcoffee@xanga - We’ll make a solid agreement on the fact that no one can say what rape is truly about until they’ve done the raping. I will take what a rapist has told me as reasoning before I make assumptions. I was a victim for 10 years. Control and power will always have something to do with it, but not everything. It’s never the victim’s fault – it’s simply all about trying to prevent and lower risk as much as possible. 

An example of rape culture: http://thegrandnarrative.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/dolce-and-gabbana-gang-rape.jpg

I don’t think the 2 relate, since in your first paragraph, your point seemed to be: Don’t be a slut. When you talked about slut shaming, your point seemed to be: It’s okay to have sex with multiple people. And responding to your solution, how do we teach without judging?

I don’t agree that women are completely innocent though. Many people assume men are perverted, but I know plenty of girls who have sick minds and dress… well, like a slut. If you dress sexually, you will attract the attention of men. To them, you would look like an easy woman who would open her legs up for $25. It does not create an excuse for violence/rape, but women should respect their bodies more. You reap what you sow. I feel like in America, everyone blames each other for their problems. Rape is bad, yeah, why don’t you teach men that?
Solutions? Rape shouldn’t be glamorized in the media or on TV.  

@sexliesandcoffee@xanga - To point out that the rapist targeted a woman because her clothing made her appear an easy target is not blaming her.  Your comments are exactly the lack of distinction that I commented about, and it destroys any chance of rational discussion of how risks can be properly assessed and evaluated.  Chicbananas and I both know as an item of FACT, that the dress of the victim does figure into the decision-making process of some rapists some of the time.  Denying that and accusing us of “blaming the victim” for pointing that out does not change the fact, and does not positively contribute to the discussion.  All it does is discourage relevant facts from being brought out.

@Spectrophile@xanga - Sorry, but this is the dumbest comment I’ve seen here.  So, you are saying that because women SHOULDN’T have to worry about what they wear and where they walk when they walk, and because men SHOULD be told not to rape women, that we shouldn’t warn women about how they can reduce their risks of getting raped?  Talk about denial!  Fact is women DO get raped, so not to advise them on how to reduce their risks is irresponsible and downright stupid.

Yeah if people do things that are stupid (like getting drunk and thinking that it won’t make you vulnerable) then they are partly to blame for their predicament.

“We’ve been taught that we should be wanted by men,”

This is baloney. It’s actually healthy to want to be in a relationship with someone. It’s pretty much established fact that men are very looks driven (like it or not…. you can’t beat this out of men, but you can berate them into lying about it if you ridicule them enough)

Really, I completely agree that we shouldn’t blame the victim, but sometimes (and without a specific situation I can’t say when) people need to look at their own actions and take some responsibility.

@chicbananas@xanga - the easiness isnt always their mindset though. Often the challenge is part of the thrill. 

Hopefully being a slut is never acceptable. It’s nasty. I’m all for slut shaming.

@Resilient_Light@xanga - everyone is different, especially reasoning. your comment doesn’t negate my point.

@sexliesandcoffee@xanga - Bingo!

I live in Mexico, where rape has become so common that it is accepted and rarely do women take up legal actions against their attacker.
In a recent poll that was conducted in the city I live in, 17.1% of the interviewed people believed that it is alright for women to be abused and 17% believe that raped women brought the rape upon themselves
entry link
original source (in spanish)

I agree all the blame belongs on the rapist.  That said, I would encourage any woman to avoid putting herself in situations that increase the chance she will be targeted by a rapist or any other threat, whenever possible, to be aware of her surroundings and cautiou, and to know how to defend herself if she is threatened or attacked.

rapists are usually opportunists. the victim isn’t to blame and the rapist is at fault, but some people should have more common sense, such as jogging alone at 3am in the secluded mountain trails while listening to her ipod at full blast, so she isn’t aware of anybody following her or noises in the bushes. rapes can happen during broad daylight, too, or anytime, anywhere, but I was saying to be more self aware of your surroundings and don’t look like an easy target, not necessarily the way she is dressed, but the wrong place at the wrong time can sometimes be avoided or have a backup plan of self defense or something. I’m not saying don’t go anywhere, just be more alert and try to make wiser decisions, because they tend to target the oblivious looking deer, who isn’t paying attention for example than the one with a group of people.

@theflowerstem@xanga - “Sometimes, it can be the victims fault,
nobody told you to get drunk, dress like a prostitute or put yourself in
a circumstance to where you have to be by yourself at 2:00 a.m.”

It is never, ever a rape victim’s fault that she is raped.  I don’t care if she leaves her house wearing candy necklace underpants and “Lick Me” pasties.  Unless she agrees to sex, no man (or woman) has the right to have sex with her.  It is the rapist’s fault, 100% the rapist’s fault. 

A woman should be able to walk around in public naked without any man thinking he can just go up and have sex with her against her will.  To put any blame on the rape victim says it is not just her punishment for dressing that way but also any man’s right to rape her.  Shameful. 

woo holy crap! I thought he sang “in my head you’ll be screaming MORE”. that’s just messed up.

@Lost_Muse@xanga - No, women should not have to worry about what they wear or where they walk.  Do men?  No, men don’t.  There’s a difference in doing things that reduce your chances of being a victim of crime (not walking alone at night, locking your doors, etc.) and having some one put some of the blame on you, if you are a victim. 

I’d like to see the stats on what are women wearing when they are raped.  I’d actually guess that there is not a correlation between “slutty” dressing and rape.  Men rape ugly ill-dressed women.  (I’m not trying to be mean here.)  It’s about control, not sex. 

I know about these issues.  People will always have an opinion on how a woman dresses and carries herself.  I think some of it is good.  Some women are really flaunting their bodies with this notion of making men want them.  I don’t think that is smart because it helps to continue the belief that women are just sexual objects for men’s pleasure. 

However, that does not mean that men have some right or get some kind of leeway when it comes to rape.  No matter how a woman dresses, she is not available for rape, not ever! 

And I literally feel sick to my stomach every time I hear someone place some blame on a rape victim.  It’s horrifying. 

@TiredSoVeryTired@xanga - All of your comments are bang on. Lovely.

@Lost_Muse@xanga - Derp, your method is exactly what we are doing now, and it isn’t working. This is why these movements are taking place, which demand more respect for women. Awareness of the issue will have an effect, as awareness does for all things in society. You may think its a joke, but a minority of men do need to be told that it is not okay.

@P0RCELA1N_D0LL@xanga - Yeah, that is true. And I quite agree with you.

@theflowerstem@xanga - Based on all of your comments I have seen on this article, you seem very unaware of the actual statistics of rape. It truly does not matter if a woman wanted to wear sweatpants and stay sober, never going out alone, etc, or if the woman went to a bar by herself in a mini skirt. According to RAINN, two thirds of rapes and sexual assaults are committed by someone the victim knows. No one wants to get raped, so no one is “inviting trouble.” I should be able to wear whatever I want. The length of my skirt is not an excuse for someone to be a sick individual.

@i_am_determined@xanga - Haha, that is the very argument people make in Muslim Republics, that women who dress scantily clad are meat to the lions. Hate to tell you, but the argument isn’t working out for women over there. The laws and culture that governments enforce do have an effect on society. Fact is, there are men who have the “She was asking for it” attitude, and this is remediable. We are a product of our nurturing after all. No one is born a rapist. Therefore to stamp out this issue, awareness is required, which is what these movements are trying to achieve.

How can anyone blame children and elderly that get raped?  Were they dressing in provocative clothing?   I think not.  No one should have to worry about being raped.  It’s a fucking human right.  Fuck victim blaming.  If someone’s gonna rape, they’re gonna do it no matter what.  I bet women in middle eastern countries who practically wear blankets still get raped. 

I’d also like to point out that victim blaming is not only highly limiting to women (you’re only allowed to wear certain things, be outside your house at certain times, all because you have a vagina), but it is a bit sexist towards men. It supports the idea that men are mindless beings that just can’t control themselves around a sexy woman. It’s bullshit.

Actually, the Derulo lyrics are “you’ll be screaming OHHHH” (as in, ecstasy, not from rape).

His official youtube page has the lyrics posted with the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LU-ZQWZSGfc

So you might want to stop spreading that tidbit of misinformation.

This whole post is a headache.

Feminism overload…

Oh wow. The song goes “You’ll be screaming Ohhhh.” Not “no”, he is not talking about rape. He is clearly talking about consensual sex. I had to stop reading after that idiotic comment.

Dear god, this topic is so tired. People post it for the damn pageviews. Fuck, it’s just like the abortion and weight debates we have on here every other week.

How about we change the drug culture… You can’t argue that a woman who is passed out or high out of her mind isn’t more likely to get raped. Why is that okay? Why is it ever okay for anyone to get fucked up on drugs? And why the hell is no one talking about that instead of the 3 topics everyone always focuses on?

I agree with everything on here. Rape culture is disgusting… and I’ve met girls who have suffered from that stigma and I am so angry at those who judge them that way. But I have found that some girls play the rape card and it’s kind of one of those ‘she was actually asking for it’ situations.  

That, to me, is equally disgusting. Someone who says they are raped when (yeah they were drunk, yeah they were dressing slutty, Yeah they were clinging on to other drunk boys) you’re begging for it and pulling off boys pants… then I think the rape card shouldn’t be used… and I think the slut card is appropriate. The guys who are accused of rape … are so screwed… literally. haha.

“

We need to be more respectful of everyone’s sex preferences.”   No, “we” don’t. Tollerate them so that they have the right to practice, yes. Respect, no.

@theflowerstem@xanga - Sure no one tells us to dress slutty or walk around at 2am alone but that is not always the case. Some times circumstance leads you to

HAVE

to do it. I don’t know about where you live, but summers here can get very hot and very humid. The less clothing to keep the body heat in and leave more skin exposed to let the sweat evaporate (aka the body’s natural cooling system) the better. ALSO less women would be out wandering the streets alone if bus systems ran later then dinner time in small towns (if the small town has a bus system at all) and on average somewhere between 11pm and midnight in larger towns. Not everyone has a car to get where they need to go late at night. Prevention of rape isn’t as good as it could be. How many parents will think to give their daughters a weapon or put them in some kind of self defense class? Very few

@theflowerstem@xanga - and then that kind of mindset leads to a woman being told to wear a burqa and never leave home, because that’s how deeply ingrained the rape culture becomes.

look up some rape statistics- an incredibly high number of rape victims are raped by someone they knew, so i doubt it’s an opportunistic alley-rapist just waiting for someone with a skanky outfit. people take advantage of vulnerability, not a certain style of dress… but does this mean we must become invulnerable to avoid rape? is this even possible for a human being to accomplish? and if not, how do we expect a woman to do it, with rape being the consequence of failure?

etc.

@MoonFaeEyryan@xanga -I completely agree with you. Also the Cayman Islands is another great example of a country where you can walk around practically naked and not have a single worry about getting raped. And no I don’t just mean on the beach…although I haven’t been there in many years so things might have changed. But last time I was there I can tell you for a fact people felt completely safe offering/accepting a ride to/from a complete stranger without fear of any harm coming to them or their property. The more we put the blame on the victim the more inclined others will be to do wrong. It is our job as a society to teach our youth from as early of an age as possible to respect others and their rights as humans. This is my theory- I think our problem might be we start this respect learning program a bit too late and it’s just not sticking… It’s a bit like teaching a foreign language, the earlier in life you introduce it the more likely it is to stick. Typically we don’t start teaching respect for others until a child starts school or is close to it, especially since a parent sees a child fighting with their siblings and just shrugs it off as sibling rivalry. If we teach this respect earlier on, maybe we have a better chance of them acting on these horrific urges when they are adults? But like I said, just a personal theory.

@chicbananas@xanga - Your comment still puts blame on the victim which is what is wrong with society. No one deserves the blame for being raped even if they are walking down the street alone in the dark half naked. Your mentality about it being even slightly their fault for how they dress is appalling. 

I can’t agree with you more…. this post says exactly what I think.

Stop shaming and judging other people. Well said. 

@MoonFaeEyryan@xanga - are you saying that men are being taught the antithesis, that it’s okay to rape women?

@striemmy@xanga - nicely put.  it’s good to remember that at the root, everyone is innocent.  (and i do apply that to everyone.)  this notion breeds compassion.  compassion breeds healing.  and healing may help to put an end to rape.

if rape is truly about power, then the question is why does the rapist feels so powerless?  what is the root of that emptiness?  how can we empower someone so he or she doesn’t feel the need to take power from another person?  these are questions not to be ignored. 

I feel that the real reason I tend to blame victims is the fact that you know how some people are. There’s a girl at my school, who got completely drunk and woke up in her thong between two guys (she slept with ALMOST anybody). But who’s to blame in that situation? Everyone at my school made fun of her for claiming rape because SHE doesn’t even remember what she did. Let’s say, she came on to both of those guys and she opened herself up to what happened, why should we blame the guys (who may or may not have been equally as intoxicated as she was. . .)? I feel that people should be responsible for the situations they create for themselves. . . Most people who get raped while drunk are those underaged girls who probably shouldn’t be drinking anyways. . .

As far as dressing a certain way, I don’t think that’s fair, at all. Who’s to say what’s “too sexy” to wear out in public? If you’re comfortable with it, go with it. I’m not big on walking alone down a dark alley though. But you have to be aware of your surroundings. I’d never ever ever blame the victim of a rape who was simply walking home alone. It’s when alcohol and drugs get intentionally invited into the mix by both the rapist and victim that I lose all compassion I have for the victim.

@@theflowerstem@xanga - I see what you are saying, there are things a woman and perhaps even a man can do to keep themselves safe. That being said-its ignorant to say “it can be the victims fault, nobody told you
to get drunk, dress like a prostitute or put yourself in a circumstance
to where you have to be by yourself at 2:00 a.m.”  No one should be raping anyone. People must respect other peoples boundaries. We must set ourselves apart from the rest of the animals we share this world with. People need to THINK.

after reading alice sebold’s book “lucky” one line stuck out in my mind, and it was what the rapist said to her as she was being raped: “you’re the worst bitch i’ve ever done this to.” in other words, you’re the ugliest bitch i’ve ever raped. rape is about power. people believing that rape is “simply” about how you dress/where you are/how you present yourself are only supporting rape culture. it’s psychological, and the men who raped have some serious psychological issues.

it makes me so angry when people tell others to just not dress “like a slut” so they won’t be raped. how about you fight RAPE in the first place, instead of accepting the fact that rape happens and then trying to make your chances of getting raped less likely? stop accepting such a despicable thing as “normal” or “expected”!

i seriously doubt that a man hiding in an alleyway is going to wait for the perfectly sluttily dressed girl to come along. he’ll wait for a girl, that’s all. it’s about how over-sexualized women are in our culture; society has ruined the human form.

@StillNotaPrettyGirl@xanga - @headtrippp@xanga - My bad, this is where I had double checked from: http://www.directlyrics.com/jason-derulo-in-my-head-lyrics.html … thanks for correcting me

@Resilient_Light@xanga - I’m not putting blame on the victim at all. You’re being irrational. Being educated on what we can do to lower the risk of attack, however minimal, is completely different than placing blame. Your denial and confusion of the two are what’s hurting rather than aiding the improvement of life and safety. That’s all I’m going to say on the matter.

@striemmy@xanga - Now, you know these are apples and oranges and not remotely comparable. You also know that the majority of people in prison are in for non-violent drug offenses because of the 80′s anti-drug culture (Heh.) that ramped up punishments for even minor offenses like possession for personal use.

Heck, we could talk about the fact that society actually endorses criminal activity, glorifying it to varying degrees, as a means for someone without means to “make it.”

The original post’s argument regarding the emphasis on mode of dress and victim-blaming is valid. Women who are reach out and report rape are still discouraged by law enforcement to pursue charges in acquaintance rape situations, despite the fact that most rapes are committed by people the victim knew. All of this talk about back alley rape as if it were the most prevalent form of rape is ridiculous.

By all means, every person should be aware of their surroundings and exercise caution when in a public setting, but that is a genderless directive we should all be aware of. You wouldn’t go to an ATM alone in the middle of the night on a rough city street, would you? So, it’s less about avoiding rape and more about being sensible when out and about, isn’t it?

For victim blaming, please see comments by the neighbors of the eleven year old Texas girl who was raped by as many as eighteen males ranging in age from 14 to 20-something. They blamed the way she dressed and acted for her gang rape.

From the article:
“It’s just destroyed our community,” said Sheila Harrison, 48, a
hospital worker who says she knows several of the defendants. “These
boys have to live with this the rest of their lives.”

As does the victim. Who do you think got the raw end of that deal?

Every female has the right to walk down a street at night in sexy clothes without getting raped. But for as long as there are men who don’t abide by society’s rules and ethics, we need to realize that there is a risk involved in dressing in a miniskirt and walking down Chicago at 3 in the morning. 

@GloKit@xanga - THANK YOU.

@chicbananas@xanga - *bows* you’re quite welcome.

Meh, sounds like another chick from the Slutwalk Movement. I’ve already written on this. 

The Slutwalk movement is not at all representative of anyone who isn’t a Caucasian woman in America so I won’t be a part of this discussion. You’re too busy fighting for your right to look the part of a slut without getting harmed that you forget that MANY victims DON’T dress provocatively. Even women in burkas get raped, so what is your point??

i think that instead of teaching us that 1 in 4 women on college campuses in the us will be raped, that 1 in 4 men on college campuses is a rapist (assuming that all rape is a 1 time offense for males and 1 time happening for females…it’s imperfect i know, but it gets the point across)  it makes it seem a whole lot more awful and it isn’t victim oriented.  it focuses on the aggressor.  it’s also a lot scarier when you think of it that way.  like, instead of posting signs in the girls bathrooms at my uni like “be careful, watch your drink, you could get raped, always walk with a buddy etc” post like “perhaps the guy you meet tonight will be a rapist, empower yourself.”  then people start talking about that, and everybody will say how rape is totally awful, and maybe some guys will realize that is isn’t okay to take advantage of a drunk girl because he will lose the respect of his friends and it will prevent more rapes.  in a perfect world…

You know, a rapist doesn’t care what you look like. Some of the time it’s because he or she just wants power, not to get laid.

@Prolixity_Split@xanga - This is kinda off topic but your pic says Brians not Brains… did you mean for it to say that? Is there someone named Brian in your life?

Okay i only read about half of this because it was just dragging on. As a woman, I’d like to say everyone needs to man the fuck up. The world is not going to solve your problems. And any girl who’s humor is a tad sexual isn’t going to be offended when someone calls her a slut. I’ve been called a slut about a million times. I know I’m not, so I don’t need to complain to the world about how it’s just so unfair that I’m taught to be skanky and then to be ashamed of that behavior. If you think for yourself and ignore people who bring you down, you’ll be fine and we wouldn’t have posts like this anymore.
*end rant*

@Rose_Hikari@xanga - The answer is simple. You cannot force others to do as you please. We try doing that. We attach truly appropriate punishments to horrifying and atrocious acts. Life in a box is no joke, and neither is the death penalty. That doesn’t stop murderers from springing up in great numbers and I mean serial killers, not one and doners.

In any situation in this world the only factor you truly have control of is you. Maybe people shouldn’t take advantage of other people but that’s not the world we live in. If you’re jogging by yourself at night or early in the morning you should be prepared for anything that might happen to you. If you get shitfaced at a party you should prepare for anything that could and might happen to you. If you do not take your personal safety into account in public and private then you should prepare, mentally, for what will probably happen to you (statistically speaking). Personal responsibility is the only responsibility. 

@Prolixity_Split@xanga - I know lots of things. I know that even a comparison of apples and oranges is still valid on the basis that both are fruit, hanging fruit, used to make juices, roughly round and which many people enjoy. They are more similar than say, apples and porcupines. Neither of us is here to mince words though.

I agree that that specific basis for victim-blaming isn’t the correct way to go about it. I disagree that victims should be relieved of all blame in total. 

Actually, I would because I’m 6’2 and I’m young and I’m cocky but that’s aside the point. 

I remember that article. Both got the raw end of the deal to some extent. Were those boys responsible for their actions? Of course they were. The older the worse, I say. However, they are children for all intents and purposes. Many of them wouldn’t know appropriate sexual etiquette if it jumped up and bit their dick. There are several considerations I take when evaluating situatiosn like that. Whose idea was it really? People, as animals, are  subject to groupthink and herd-like behavior and it sounded like something relatively pre-planned. So whose idea was it? What also occurs to me is the style of dress of the victim and here’s why. This was soemthing pre-planned. I can understand one or two really screwed up 19 year olds deciding on the spur of the moment to do something like this or even planning it between the two of them. I cannot conceive of 11 boys and men not only planning this but being on board with it while it was going down if an idea hadn’t been implanted in their head about this child on a sexual level. Mayeb I’m wrong but generally speaking in the hood kids are left alone. Once little girls start sexually maturing that’s generally when they start getting looked at and talked to and propositioned and everything else that goes on. So I have to wonder what made a full group of 11 people follow suit on this one. could they all be so disturbed? I know some will inherently have been motivated by nothing more than “everyone else was doing it” but if they knew and understand on a sexual level that she was only 11 would they have? I have yet to see pictures of the victim which would have either ocnfirmed or lended evidence against my thoughts on the matter. 

Also, I enjoy that game too.

@posterofagirlxx@xanga - That’s a pretty screwed way of thinking of things. I think there’s quite enough man-hate in the world. I agree with the message of self-empowerment but painting every other, other, other man to be a rapist isn’t going to help anyone. How about we paint every other, other, other girl as having an incurable std and see how that works out for gender relations in the future?

@six6vi@xanga - Don’t women in burkas get raped in areas where everyone is modestly covered anyway? There’s no basis for comparison in that example. 

While I can see the overall argument that this article is making, I
don’t agree with all of it. Being raped is never the fault of the
victim, yes.  But taking precautionary steps is upon every person. Just
like how you shouldn’t go to a shady area of town wearing all of your
jewelry and a fifty dollar bill hanging out of your pocket if you don’t
want to get robbed, women should take precautionary steps also. 

A rapist will rape whoever he wants, that woman may be scantily clad or
she may be fully covered, but women should be educated also.  While I
don’t agree that a woman wearing provocative clothing is ‘asking’ for
it, it is well spread in our own western culture to wear things that
attract people to our bodies.  If that is a way one chooses to present
themselves, then they should learn how to defend themselves (and every woman
should know how to defend herself).

@Spectrophile@xanga -

While I understand the point you are trying to make using your ‘Muslim
Republics’ example, I disagree with the usage of it, because you are
dealing with different cultures, different laws, different societies.

First of all, they are
usually called Islamic Republics.  The way of dress you call oppressive
is a way of dress that many women
adhere to from their own will.  I won’t say that rape isn’t a problem in
many Muslim-majority countries, but their rate is much lower than many
countries in the West.  That is, even if you factor in the unknown
variable due to non-reporting cases due to social stigma.  A reason for
this?  Because many of these countries refer to strict punishment of
rape cases.  Women have many rights within these countries, but what a
woman in the West views as ‘freedom’ doesn’t always align with the
definition of freedom in the eyes of a woman in the East. 

It’s extremely common these days to look upon these Muslim countries to
compare ourselves with and say, “Well at least we have it better than
them.”  Many of those countries are actually progressive in many of their ways
and are much different than the way the Western media portrays them as. 
Are they perfect?  Of course not.  But rape there is the same, or less
than, a problem there than it is here.

@striemmy@xanga - Believe it or not there are Muslim women that practice… in America. And the environment isn’t relevant… at all. So I’m not sure your point? Rape is rape. It doesn’t matter if the rapist is modestly clothed. 

@six6vi@xanga - I didn’t say that I thought there weren’t. I see more than a few women that wear the full burka in my area which is arguably one of the most progressive in the country. However, I haven’t heard anything about a woman who wears a burka being raped on American soil as yet. If you have please forward me a link so I can educate myself. I’d also be interested to know if the attacker claimed to be a muslim. 

My point was that in a system with only one option it ceases to matter. For example, statistically speaking perhaps women with longer hair may be raped more often then women with short hair and someone may, forgive the correlation conflated with causation, infer that more often than not rapists instinctively prefer women who possess more sexual attributes because it relates to the amount of leverage they gain when they rape. If we tried to apply that data to a society where women always shaved their heads then obviously it wouldn’t work. The practice and psychology of rape would have evolved differently in that society and different factors would impact it in the absence of the hair issue. This is all hypothetical but I hope you get my drift as it relates to the burka comment. 

@Spectrophile@xanga - Is it remediable? Have you never heard the phrase, “You can’t teach an old dog new tricks?” If someone who is old enough to know that rape is wrong, and yet they’ve done it before and plan to do it again, how is it beneficial for them to be taught anything? That would just be wasting money. It would be different for one-time rapists, perhaps, but the fact of the matter is, there are people out there who will not just change. I’m not saying to not teach kids/teenagers about the matter. What I AM saying is that convicted serial rapists cannot, and will not be changed for the good of society. We shouldn’t waste money trying to tell them to stop, because it’s very likely that once they’re released, they’ll just do it again. Like I said, harsher punishment is really the only thing that will keep them from raping again. You could make the comparison to serial murderers: would you want serial murderers to go through classes that “teach them” not to kill? Maybe you would, but would you also want them to be released on parole and give them the chance to kill again? Not to mention that a lot of male murderers also sexually assault and sometimes rape women.

Great article!

@TiredSoVeryTired@xanga - Why do you think women should be able to leave the house naked or wearing next to nothing without any negative consequences? Being able to dress like a whore isn’t empowering to women, it’s stupid and backwards thinking.

@MoonFaeEyryan@xanga - those countries have the highest rate of underage human trafficking in the world.  How can you say that’s true if they have more child sex slaves then anywhere else in the world.

Is it not rape if your a slave?

@aimeethefairy@xanga - Yes, I know all about heat, I live in the desert and my summers are hot and dry. So anyway, ever heard of wearing lighter colors to bounce the suns rays off of you instead of wearing dark colors that absorb the heat? How about wearing clothes that are made out of a thinner material or even better, staying out of the heat.

ALSO less women would be out wandering the streets alone if bus systems ran later then dinner time in small towns (if the small town has a bus system at all) and on average somewhere between 11pm and midnight in larger towns. Not everyone has a car to get where they need to go late at night. How about these same women run their errands when the busses are running, call a taxi or ask someone for a ride? People need to take WAY MORE responsiblity for their actions then what they’re taking.

@theflowerstem@xanga - Rape has nothing to do with what someone looks like or dresses like it is a control thing. It’s never a girls fault for being raped…

@Starving_For_Perfection__x3@xanga - There is blame for both parties. Even if she knew her rapists, I still place some blame on the girl because you can normally tell when someone is up to no good.

I don’t care what anyone says. Anyone who thinks it is even a little OKAY to stand up and get in a victim’s face and be like: “Well you had it coming because of blah blah blah” BECAUSE that is basically what you are doing for making excuses as to their dress, attitude etc. No I’m sorry, that is NOT okay.

As a daughter of a deputy I see and hear a lot of shit. It is never okay, I do not CARE if any woman or man had put themselves in a “questionable situation.” Humanity is not perfect. We cannot all walk around in “modest” clothes and do “modest” things and all go to bed at bedtime before 10 pm. And rape happens all the TIME, no matter the state of DRESS!

Because we cannot all be held to a “modest” standard and SHOULDN’T have to be, quite frankly anyone even thinking of blaming someone who has been LEGITAMATELY raped and has a CASE is EXACTLY the crap that needs to stop. By giving excuses as to how it is victim’s fault all you do is tell the rapist indirectly. “What you did isn’t completely wrong, she was in a mini skirt… it is okay.”

Excuse me while I go try and NOT to be sick by this.

@striemmy@xanga - See, that’s what you call victim blaming. Regardless of how she was dressed, these were boys and men that lived in her neighborhood and knew her from around the neighborhood, indicating that at least some of them knew how old she was or that she was a minor. Regardless of her age, she was raped, not just a victim of statutory rape. She was messed up in the process of everyone getting their turn, which indicates that it was NOT consensual. Regardless of whether she was able to consent or not, at least some of those men had to know that it was WRONG to dogpile on another human being like that for the purposes of selfish sexual gratification. It’s not like she was going through a gang initiation or a paid porn star; she was not benefiting from the exchange in any way, and at least a few of them had to realize that.

Neither peer pressure nor ignorance of the law or the age of the victim excuse you from being held accountable for breaking any law. Mob mentality does not excuse people from facing the consequences of their actions.

That said, a fair comparison would have been to say:
We’re a culture that teaches “don’t have a nice watch,” instead of “don’t mug people.”

When you insist that a woman should not dress a particular way, it’s exactly like saying that wearing a nice watch or actually stopping at a red light/stop sign in your nice car is asking to be mugged or car jacked. Instead of preaching caution in dangerous situations, you place the responsibility on the potential victim. If she wears a skirt (not just a mini-skirt, but ANY SKIRT because they are all more accessible than pants) and gets raped, she should be charged for her own rape because she was clearly the one in the wrong. Wait… what? You mean, men shouldn’t be held accountable for their actions at all? They’re just animals that act on base instinct and lack the higher reasoning skills to properly analyze the consequences of their actions? Hot damn! Men are no more culpable for rape than a dog who humps your leg against your will.

That’s not how the justice system works, thankfully.

Blaming the victim for being in a dangerous situation or wearing “slutty” clothing is yet another distraction, like the back alley rape distraction. It keeps the focus off of the fact that there are men roaming our society who believe that women do not have a right to say no to sex. 

@caffeinated_mama@xanga - It’s a dyslexic zombie. “Briiiians.” 

I love love love love love this post! Rec’d for sure. Thank you so much for writing this!!!!!

@theflowerstem@xanga - Well I envy you for one thing: you get a dry heat which is MUCH more bearable then humidity. And yes i have, and I personally do use those tricks but there are still days where walking around the house or just running to the store to pick up one or two things less clothing still equals more comfort.

And as for the bus system lets take myself as an example. I work 8pm-4am. Not my choice, it was just the only shift available to me. The economy sucks and gas is sky-rocketing. the bus obviously doesn’t run that late and I learned the hard way neither do the cabs. Yes I have friends pick me up so I feel safer getting home and sure they’re happy to do it. But 4am usually equates to sleeping time so every now and then a ride will fall asleep and I am left with no option but to walk home since I am still working on being able to afford a car. Yes I’m looking for a closer job or better yet one during the day but like I said, the economy sucks so right now I’m stuck with it. I’m not asking to get raped when I am trying to get home from my job. I’m just trying to get to my home after a hard night’s work. And furthermore as for what you said about a girl knowing that someone is up to no good. I can tell from that statement you’ve never been in a rape situation. Rapists who target people they know do it because the victim trusts them, making them more vulnerable. The guard has been lowered long before the rapist had shown any signs of their horrific intent. Date rape is the most common form of rape where in a person YOU KNOW will slip drugs into your drink. Think about this next time a guy friend of yours offers you a soda – GBL and GBH are both invisible when dissolved in water, and are odorless. They are somewhat salty tasting, but are indiscernible when dissolved in beverages such as sodas, liquor, or beer. Due to memory problems induced by these drugs, the victim may not be aware of the attack until 8-12 hours after it occurred.(citing source) In small doses they act pretty much like ecstasy or in large doses a sedative, making it plenty easy for that guy who just handed you your drink to do anything to you without your consent. 

Dear God, I don’t blame the victim, but I do encourage women to be intelligent about their choices! I can’t even fully read posts like this because we live in a culture where a rape victim can never be told any part of their life is their responsibility.

In a perfect world, a woman could do whatever she wants without fear of something happening to her. I agree that it’s totally fucked up that people blame the victims (when they do!). But I do not agree that women should not be careful with their actions.

Personally, I go out of my way to avoid dangerous situations. I don’t drink (EVER, but that’s just me. If I did, I would never drink enough to get drunk), I don’t go to seedy places without at least one large male with me that I can trust, and I don’t dress in ways that show more skin than not (or dangerous areas of skin like low-cut shirts, mini-skirts, things like that) when walking alone anywhere. I wear clothes that would be difficult to remove or get around in a dire situation. I walk with my head up and make eye contact with anyone that gives me the heebie-jeebies. I keep a screwdriver in my purse/pocket/boot if I’m going anywhere alone. I hold my keys pointing between my fingers (like brass knuckles) if I have to walk to my car in the dark. I know how to throw a punch.

These are simple things to know or do to keep yourself safer than you would be otherwise.

I certainly don’t blame anyone for getting raped, but I promote women being safe. I know some live in a bubble of “it will never be my fault if it happens” and “it won’t happen to me”, so they feel safer, but they’re not safer.

As for “slut-shaming” and calling people whores, who cares? It’s another form of bullying. It’s easy to be above that. Even though it bothers me (a LOT) when people have said that about me, I don’t let them know it because it would just give them the satisfaction that they got to me. The point is to be above what other people say and do. Be who you are and don’t answer to anyone. The people who care will back you up, and even if you have no one, you have yourself. You owe it to yourself to be above their influence.

@aimeethefairy@xanga - First off, thanks for all of the information on date rape, I and a lot of other people reading your comment appriciate you. I know you’re trying to say that rape happens when you least expect it and I get that, but I honestly believe that some people do make themselves more of a target and they need to protect themselves.

So I’m a slut-shamer. So what?

I know I posted earlier, but I have an addendum:

In no way do I believe that not taking careful steps is a justification to blame anyone for being raped. Instead, I believe there are measures we can take as women to decrease our chances. There will never be a point where you can say, “I have a 0% chance of being raped”, but there are ways to decrease your chance of being attacked sexually or otherwise.

Standing around and waiting for attackers to be less aggressive is never going to work. If we want to take back our freedom from fear, we need to first learn to care for ourselves.

@PervyPenguin@xanga - I don’t know, it’s just a matter of human decency, I guess. As a species, our peaceable communication skills seem to be shit and we’re cruel to each other often for no reason at all (especially on the internet or in other instances where we are surrounded by strangers for much of the day) which causes the person we’re cruel towards to just be cruel to the next person in line and so on.

I’m not saying that if you in particular stop being mean then the whole world will be like some sort of fairy land or some rainbow shit like that, but I am suggesting that you could possibly prevent at least one other person from having a horrible day due to rude comments.

There’s a Jewish proverb that goes something like, “To save one life is to save the world”. Each person lives in their own world which is inaccessible to everyone else, no matter how hard we try to share it with other people. It’s really just beyond the, “walk a mile in someone else’s shoes” because I don’t think anyone can really know what it feels like to be someone else, no matter how hard we try.

Basically, if we all understand that a) we are all living beings that react to stimuli, and b) we will never understand each other entirely, I think the world could be an easier place to live in.

@striemmy@xanga - Unfortunately several rape cases don’t get reported, and some cultures encourage keeping it secretive more than others. 

“However, I haven’t heard anything about a woman who wears a burka being raped on American soil as yet.”
Just because you haven’t heard it doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. Just recently a girl at a nearby university was raped, however that has only been “broad casted” within that university’s community discussion, and another case actually happen not far off campus from my university. Both were Muslim. I would send you a link if it existed: we get our alerts through e-mail and the campus discussion requires you to be a student to login. However I highly suggest that you focus more on opening your eyes to the reality of rape, rather than saying “Oh well it wasn’t posted on the internet so it must not have happened.”
Also I do not know the description of the attacker for the one that didn’t happen at my university. However I highly doubt that during alerts for our safety no one puts the person’s religious beliefs in the memo, probably because it’s irrelevant. However he was described as a young, Caucasian male. Could have been Muslim, could not have been. Either way that doesn’t really matter, and isn’t consequential to the actual issue here, which is rape. Try to focus. 
“For example, statistically speaking perhaps women with longer hair may be raped more often then women with short hair and someone may, forgive the correlation conflated with causation, infer that more often than not rapists instinctively prefer women who possess more sexual attributes because it relates to the amount of leverage they gain when they rape.”
Firstly I’d like for you to quote statistics that actually exist. Making up statistics just for the sake of argument is pointless. However the only reason I can imagine why women with longer hair get raped more than those with short hair (if that’s even the case) is probably because it’s easier to control them: grabbing the hair gives one leverage does it not? It’s probably why women are advised to not wear ponytails. 
Not to mention statistically it’s found that it’s a matter of control, not the level of attractiveness of the victim. Many rape victims aren’t at all attractive by society’s standards. Hate to play devil’s advocate but if you were to be a rapist, knowing that society puts blame on pretty girls, would you not go for the less attractive girls since it would be less believable that they were raped?
“The practice and psychology of rape would have evolved differently in that society and different factors would impact it in the absence of the hair issue. This is all hypothetical but I hope you get my drift as it relates to the burka comment. “
I think you’re missing the issue entirely, and it’s probably because you don’t understand the psychology behind people who commit crimes like rape, murder, etc. Which is probably a good indicator that you’re not a rapist so I can’t really hate you for that. I think you’re focusing too much on the victim, when in reality in the mind of a rapist it’s not about the victim at all. It’s not about their attractiveness, it’s not about whether they have hair or not, or whether they have their cleavage and ass out or if they’re burka clad; it really is irrelevant. A rapist does not care about any of that, they care about asserting a dominance over whoever is convenient for them. 

@Prolixity_Split@xanga - ok lol that’s cool. I love that game by the way.

i know many young women who like to go out, get wasted, hook up with random guys, and then cry “RAPE!” when they regret it the next morning.  if you know you make poor choices when you drink, then don’t drink.  sorry, but i have zero sympathy for women who go out dressed like hookers but don’t want the attention.  you are what you wear.  if you dress like trash, you are trash.  

i don’t blame the victim.  but i don’t feel sorry for them… just like i don’t feel sorry for people who die in otherwise harmless fender benders because they didn’t want to wear your seatbelt.  if you’re a smart, capable, aware woman, i think your chances of being sexually assaulted are pretty low here in America.

also, i feel the need to point out your hypocrisy.  if women should be allowed to walk around naked without anything bad happening to them, the rest of us normal individuals should be allowed to think and say whatever we like about them, provided we don’t hurt them.     

@theflowerstem@xanga - I understand you’re trying to tell girls to be more cautious and I can respect that. I agree everyone should be aware of their surroundings and cut ties with anyone they feel will hurt them later on in life, whether male or female.

The point that I’m trying to make is no matter how a person dresses, or what situation they put them selfs in rape is NEVER ok and excuses placing blame on the victim just makes the problem alot worse in today’s society. We can’t know what people are thinking so accidentally befriending a rapist happens which deserves about as much blame on the victim as someone getting rear-ended on their way to work.  

@theflowerstem@xanga - ”Sometimes, it can be the victims fault,
nobody told you to get drunk, dress like a prostitute or put yourself in
a circumstance to where you have to be by yourself at 2:00 a.m.”

While getting that drunk may be irresponsible, it in NO WAY means that a victim is EVER to blame for a man violently assaulting her. Maybe the victim did a stupid thing by getting wasted, but what the rapist did is criminal, and there’s no excuse for that.

Maybe I’m especially riled up about this issue because two NYPD cops here just got acquitted for raping a drunk woman while on duty. UGH.

@caffeinated_mama@xanga - My obsessive planting may help spur me to post things like this: Zombies!

@Jessica - I disagree.@aimeethefairy@xanga - I disagree.

@striemmy@xanga - I have to disagree, to a point. Obviously in *today’s* society it is essential to think of yourself & your actions, etc., in order to avoid bad situations. What I’m saying, though, is that if people seriously just do this whole “only consider yourself” thing then nothing will change. The fact is that rape culture in America is becoming more obvious. How can we change that? Certainly not by shrugging our shoulders and saying, “Well, I can only control what I do.” If people actually want to make a difference then they must do something, and that can start with one person. I think it’s awful (not that this is what you were saying) to think that nothing can be done about rape because people can only directly control their actions. If you change your own actions it can affect others and then you can change things in a big way. People create the society they live in and they are certainly capable of changing it if they really want to.

Ummmm if a girl is having sex with like half the guys in her grade, yes she is a slut. There’s a difference between a woman owning her sexuality through casual sex and then banging every guy she can get her hands on. But the same goes for a guy. I have no problem calling a guy a slut or a man-whore, if that’s what he really is. I do agree that women get it way worse than men though, but that’s how it’s been since the beginning of time.

@too_pretty_to_die@xanga -  “if you’re a smart, capable, aware woman, i think your chances of being sexually assaulted are pretty low here in America”

This is very untrue. Of course, it helps greatly to be aware of your surroundings, but people don’t walk around with the word “rapist” stamped on their forehead. So how is a woman to know who will and will not rape her? I’ve seen on tv where women have been out jogging in broad daylight and a man jumps out and sexually assaults them. No one could’ve saw that coming.

And as for not feeling sorry for victims..I was molested at age 5 and 6. I don’t want to be felt sorry for, but how can you not feel sorry for children that have to go through that? Even women. It’s not their fault. There’s a difference between a woman regretting her decision and claiming it’s rape and someone who has actually been raped. And not everyone who is raped “dresses like hookers”. It shouldn’t matter how the woman is dressed anyway. Men should learn to keep it in their pants and respect women, not violate them. There are NO excuses for someone’s decision to rape another.

@Prolixity_Split@xanga - Please curb your accusations. I would like to continue the cool and detached demeanor with which i’ve approached this interaction with you if at all possible but I don’t think I’ll be able to do that if you respond outside of the confines of what I’ve said. I did not say I blamed the victim for what happened. What I did say was that I would take it into consideration when evaluating the situation would be the factors involved in victim selection, one of which may have been her perceived age or sexual maturity. I didn’t say anything about it being consensual. I merely made an effort to differentiate between someone sick enough to rape someone of their own peer group and someone sick enough to rape a child, a distinction which we still do make in this day and age. Like I said, I think it’s statistically unlikely that there would be 11 people who were all sick enough to think gang raping a child was alright. I also said I may be wrong. 

I didn’t say they weren’t accountable. If you believe I did, quote me. 
No, that wouldn’t have been a fair comparison because it’s not true. We’re a culture that teaches don’t mug people and also, don’t be stupid enough to be caught with a nice watch somewhere where you may be mugged. 
I did not insist anything. Again, curb your accusations. If you’d like for this conversation to get dirty then just tell me so but I was actually hoping to keep my hands clean on this one. 

@Rose_Hikari@xanga - Well, you just let me know when you come up with a solution to humanity itself. 

@Prolixity_Split@xanga - Please curb your accusations. I would like to continue the cool and detached demeanor with which i’ve approached this interaction with you if at all possible but I don’t think I’ll be able to do that if you respond outside of the confines of what I’ve said. I did not say I blamed the victim for what happened. What I did say was that I would take it into consideration when evaluating the situation would be the factors involved in victim selection, one of which may have been her perceived age or sexual maturity. I didn’t say anything about it being consensual. I merely made an effort to differentiate between someone sick enough to rape someone of their own peer group and someone sick enough to rape a child, a distinction which we still do make in this day and age. Like I said, I think it’s statistically unlikely that there would be 11 people who were all sick enough to think gang raping a child was alright. I also said I may be wrong. 

I didn’t say they weren’t accountable. If you believe I did, quote me. 

No, that wouldn’t have been a fair comparison because it’s not true. We’re a culture that teaches don’t mug people and also, don’t be stupid enough to be caught with a nice watch somewhere where you may be mugged. 

I did not insist anything. Again, curb your accusations. If you’d like for this conversation to get dirty then just tell me so but I was actually hoping to keep my hands clean on this one. 

@six6vi@xanga - Actually, what I meant was more along the lines of if you can’t substantiate that such a thing has happened that I must assume that it hasn’t and thus it has no place in this discussion. Not being rude. Just saying that most people on the internet are full of shit and will prove points by making things up. 

It’s relevant to this discussion. I think people that blindly gloss over details are just out for blood and have no interest in understanding how things work (which, by the way, is the only way to change them effectively). 

You missed the point. I didn’t make up statistics. I made a parallel inference to illustrate how something that may impact victim selection in this society model would not impact it in others and that the two data pools cannot be mixed if this is the case. I also blatantly stated that my example was hypothetical and expressed the hopes that you got it as it related to the discussion we were actually having. If you insist on being obstinant we might as well just end this conversation before it gets ugly. 

I understand the psychology of people that rape. Rape is about power, the criminal asserting theirs over the victim. If I didn’t understand I would not have related the perceived leverage gained in my hypothetical example. 

Now, if you’re ready to discuss this like an adult by more accurately keeping track of what I’m saying instead of cherry-picking my quotes and disrupting the context of my words, I’m up for it. Try not to get mired in your own conceptions this time. 

@striemmy@xanga - “Actually, what I meant was more along the lines of if you can’t substantiate that such a thing has happened that I must assume that it hasn’t and thus it has no place in this discussion. Not being rude. Just saying that most people on the internet are full of shit and will prove points by making things up. “

If you honestly think that Muslim women don’t get raped just because you personally have never heard of it, then that’s your own inner issue. It does happen. And even if there was never ever a case of rape of a Muslim woman, does that mean she should be ignored? As if it could never happen to her in the future? 
“It’s relevant to this discussion. I think people that blindly gloss over details are just out for blood and have no interest in understanding how things work (which, by the way, is the only way to change them effectively). “
What are you referring to as relevant? Their religion? How is that relevant to this discussion?
“Now, if you’re ready to discuss this like an adult by more accurately keeping track of what I’m saying instead of cherry-picking my quotes and disrupting the context of my words, I’m up for it. Try not to get mired in your own conceptions this time. “
I can tell that talking to you is a waste of time, since if you feel cornered in a conversation you decide to be bitchy about it. Either way your “argument” is immaterial, and doesn’t change the fact that no woman deserves to be raped. Nor does it change the fact that you’re really insecure about your lack of knowledge on the topic and you’ve been trying to turn it into an another issue entirely. 
Good luck, kid. 

Putting blame on the woman for being raped because she dressed/acted a certain way is like saying someone who went to the beach and went into the water is partially to blame for being bit by a shark, or putting some blame on someone driving their car through a green light who gets hit by someone running a red light. It’s stupid. We cant all live life in a fucking bubble and stay in our houses all day and night. We do things everyday that COULD get us into shitty situations but since they normally don’t happen, we aren’t expected to encounter them.

I might as well go and steal a bunch of items from a store without cameras since clearly they are asking for it! I mean, they lay all that stuff out in the open like that, tempting me…

Get real people.

Slut Walk started in Toronto and Vancouver just held its first Slut Walk recently
This is a sticky topic..

@theflowerstem@xanga - Umm wow not everybody can have all those options available to them. We aren’t all as privileged as you apparently are.

@six6vi@xanga - And if you honestly think that I’m going to take some internet broad with a vendetta on her word, then that’s your own inner issue. I didn’t say muslim women didn’t get raped. Actually, my specific query was whether a woman with a burka had been raped in america and if so,who selected her as a victim. 

I think it would be relevant if the perpretrator was a recent immigrant from a primarily muslim nation or community. I think that would be very interesting. Like I said, you’re just out for blood and have no interest in understanding the crime. 

No, if I feel like you just cherry-picked the shit out of what I said, I decide to be bitchy about it. But you’re right, talking with you is a waste of my time. 

Oh, also, fuck you, kid. Go back to your other blog site with your nonsense. 

@striemmy@xanga - Sorry I made you cry? lol Yeahhh believe it or not your inner hatred for Muslims isn’t relevant to this discussion but thanks for playing. And I can comment wherever I feel like commenting. You though should probably take a break from Xanga, log off, and find yourself some tissues for your issues. 

@six6vi@xanga - Inner hatred for muslims…….. right.

Look, I saw how you got reamed out on your other blog for your complete misinterpretation of slutwalk. Take your poor reasoning skills and lack luster writing to some other site. 

@striemmy@xanga - Uh, what other blog exactly? I only wrote one entry about SlutWalk on my site and no one “reamed” (wtf? seriously?) me for it… Delusional much?

@Lost_Muse@xanga - Unfortunately, dressing modestly doesn’t always do the trick. I remember reading about a study that was done that concluded a girl who was dressed more modestly, but looked more insecure was more likely to be a victim of rape because she’s seen as an easier target than someone who is dressed more provocatively, but very confidently so.

on rape I think there are things you can do that can lessen the chances (I.e. groups, using your smarts etc.) but on a whole it can’t be prevented and that’s a shame.

@six6vi@xanga - Oh, apologies. I guess this only makes you a fake blogger who copies the entries of others, from tumblr no less, instead of just an ignorant individual. 

Very good post. This is very true in America. Yet I highly doubt if this would be the same in other counties.

@striemmy@xanga - Do you understand the purpose of the quotation mark? Or are you just stupid?

@six6vi@xanga - Do you understand that placing a quote in the middle of an entry without sourcing is considered plagiarism?  Thought you said you got e-mail blasts from your school. Were you lying about that or have you just never taken an english course? 

@striemmy@xanga - If I knew the source I wouldn’t have quoted it; I would have linked it. Secondly, what do e-mail blasts about crime alerts have to do with quotation marks? Nothing? Thought so. Also, so you realize, before claiming your English skills are better than anyone else’ you should recognize that the word “English” should be capitalized and that you need serious work on your comma placement. 

Peace loser!

@six6vi@xanga - Peace bitch. You’re blocked.

@striemmy@xanga - Yay! I’ve gained my first insecure hater! lolol 

Win for me!

Lol @ the hungry lion comment, that’s kind of twisted as if self control is umpossible.

I grew up hearing this rage between my older sister (sexy punk liberal) and old man (former philandering conservative) and – what if both sides took responsibility?  What if the sorts who have incidents of rape most try to take no for an answer (they laws are pretty damn zealous anyway) and scantily clad ladies think about the consequences of titillating others?  

@striemmy@xanga - There’s no accusations in my reply to you. You offered some explanations for the behavior of individuals and groups as rapists. I countered them with facts from the case. Whether mob mentality played a part or not is irrelevant. Motive does not preclude punishment.

You did, however, state your case poorly when saying that you would consider the age and attire of the victim. You could have explained that you intended it to be a factor in levying an appropriate charge (degree of assault) rather than a mitigating circumstance, which is what excuses and explanations are intended to be. Frankly, your positing about age sounds like you were offering the explanation that they couldn’t have thought the victim was 11 years old because children are generally not victimized “in the hood.”

It doesn’t matter why someone breaks a law when determining guilt, except in the case of self- or an insanity defense. The why doesn’t become a factor until sentencing. This is an important distinction because culpability doesn’t rely on motive, but on action.

Also, you’re personalizing what I said, rather than reading “you” in the generalized sense. I didn’t say YOU made those arguments. I said that when you, as in people, blame the victim, it is tantamount to relieving the assailant of responsibility, at least in part.

As for the comment on comparisons… Yes, it WOULD be a parallel comparison to replace rape and “slutty attire” with mugging and a nice watch. Essentially, insisting that a rape victim who dresses “like a slut” is responsible in part for the assault she suffered is exactly like saying that a mugging victim who had a nice watch is responsible in part for his assault. The rapist and mugger are solely responsible for the actions they take against others.

Again, instead of focusing on mode of dress specifically, why do we not teach people how to minimize risks and exercise caution IN ALL SITUATIONS? Don’t go to dangerous areas alone at night, regardless of who you are. And, hey… While we’re at it, why don’t we work on addressing broader issues that contribute to criminality, like poverty, education, abuse, etc.

@theflowerstem@xanga - 
most ignorant post ever.  Are you really that stupid?

@delicious_melody@xanga - What’s ignorant about it? Educate me.

@Prolixity_Split@xanga - You started your response by saying that that’s what you call victim blaming. I wasn’t saying that I blame the victim. I view that as an accusation. I think we’re looking at this issue from two different angles. I don’t really care about, and certainly wasn’t speaking on the issue of, sentencing or punishment.

Well, aside from the reasons stated in my original response, it’s an off comparison because of the motivations for the criminals. So far as we know dressing like a slut may not inherently make someone more likely to be raped while how nice a watch is does impact the desire to steal it. I understand what you’re trying to get at and responded to it in my last comment. I do believe in responsibility sharing because it makes logical sense. 

Because I think that these things have a greater impact than merely making one a victim in a single instance. Maybe if you wear a nice watch on wall street you get mugged at home because that’s where the perp saw you. Maybe you’ve been selected as a victim for your rapist neighbor because you’ve caught his eye sexually and he knows you’ll be an easy mark.  I don’t think poverty inherently impacts the issue of rape. I also don’t think the system is set up to be remedied. To remedy it would be to ignore its purpose. 

@theflowerstem@xanga - It’s not against the law to leave your
house dressed as some would say “looking like a whore”.  No, of course a woman dressing differently than some feel is okay should not be subjected to any kind of punishment by anyone else.  Are
you suggesting that any time a woman leaves her home dressed sparingly
she should be punished by getting raped? 

It is not society’s job to punish a woman who dresses “whorish”.  This is 21st Century America.  It’s not backwards thinking to think that the way a woman dresses is solely up to her, not anyone else.  Being naked in public is against the law so the police can ticket/arrest anyone naked… nobody has the right to rape that person. 

I’m not saying women should dress like whores, I’m saying if they choose to that doesn’t mean any man has the right to rape her and society doesn’t have the right to judge her or place part of the blame on her for her being a victim. 

If a woman dances naked in front of a bunch of people, it still doesn’t give someone the right to have UNWANTED sex with her. Nor is it the victims fault. People should learn that there is more to a woman’s body than just sex, and stop sexualizing females in the first place. Why should people have to live in fear that they will be harmed? Granted, yes, sometimes it WILL happen. But rape is literally about being in the wrong place at the wrong time. If it wasn’t that woman, it’d just be another. That’s why rapists keep raping, to feel control. If every woman looked the same, it would still happen. I will admit a lot of rapists have fetishes. But as I said before, if it wasn’t THAT blonde with the red skirt on, it’d just be a different one. Speaking of this topic, sexual assaults against men involves a lot of ignorance from people, too. Victim blaming for both genders needs to stop. I don’t even have an issue with women who have sex a lot unprotected. It’s not my, or anyone elses body. It’s a bigger risk, yes. But you’re not the one paying for it. Unless of course you end up having sex with this person, in which case if you wanted to be so protected in the first place, you’d get an STD test done on the person. Everything like that happens by chance. And I could be wrong, but if the person knows they have an STD and give it to you, legal action might be able to be taken. I hate calling anyone a slut. We’re sexual creatures, and it doesn’t make sense to criticize anyone for their frequency or lack of protection. 

@what_you_feel_is_what_you_are@xanga - 

“ Men should learn to keep it in their pants and respect women, not violate them.”
i don’t believe that men, or even other women for that matter, are required to respect women who seem to fail at respecting themselves.  so no, i don’t believe a woman who presents herself like a sexual party favor should expect to be treated as anything else.  
and again, NOT blaming the victim.  but someone’s own mistakes are not suddenly absolved because another party made mistakes too.  it’s called prevention, and in nearly every other form of victim-present crime, we hold the victim responsible for failing to do whatever is in their power to prevent a crime from happening.  i don’t see why rape should be any different.  

@Lost_In_Reverie@xanga - Yes.  Now I am very sorry I stepped into this debate, because I knew what was coming.  Yes, it is all about risk vs reward for the prospective rapist.  If he sees a high reward-low risk target, he’s going to take it.  A lot of factors go into that.  If you are dressed sexily, walking confidently and aware of your surroundings, accompanied by your husband in a well-lit, populated place, your risk of being attacked is very low.  Change some of those factors and the risk can go up.  And all other things being equal (please re-read that clause and keep it in mind, because too many people discard clauses like that when evaluating what comes next), the woman in a short skirt and halter top with no hose is going to present a higher-reward, lower-risk target to the rapist than the girl in jeans and a hoodie.  I am not telling women not to dress how they want — my wife is one sexy dresser and I love it that way — I am merely saying that the wise woman considers how she dresses as well as everything else she does, and dresses appropriately for what she is going to be doing, where and when.

@Lost_Muse@xanga - Even if those are true, it’s still not their fault.

In any case, those people who dress provocatively are *not* the ones that get raped. More often than not it’s those people who look like they won’t fight back, so those who cover up too much, or look like they have low self-esteem. And that’s something that you can’t just “cover up” or “try not to do”.

That being said, you’re right. We should try to avoid the risk, just like anyone should avoid walking alone at night in a bad neighborhood.

i get this.  i do have to say though, as a woman who has been raped on several occasions by an ex (i didn’t know about it until after he had gotten me knocked up and left me..i found videos of him doing ungodly things to me while i was blacked out drunk)…i believe that i did a lot of things that made me vulnerable to it, and had i made better choices, it wouldn’t have happened.

as a former alcoholic, i made the choice to date another alcoholic.  we would drink together EVERY NIGHT, to the point where i was completely blacked out and passed out.  he would then use that as his opportunity.  of course it is still horrifically wrong, and HE is to blame..had i NOT been so irresponsible, things may have turned out a little different.

everyone just needs to be smarter about their actions and choices.  knowing that there ARE rapists and horrible sexual predators EVERYWHERE, people need to be very aware of what they are doing, where they are, and the situation they are in.

@too_pretty_to_die@xanga - Please kill yourself. 

@MissAshley - The rape laws depend on the state, not a national law…. Also it is a sad sad day when they change the laws to that.  No means No ….. End of story

@six6vi@xanga - one, as someone who struggles with suicide, i have only one thing to say: you’re a horrible person.  i find it horribly ironic that you have no issues telling me to kill myself, without any apparent concern for those who struggle with killing themselves every day, because i have no apparent concern for those who are raped.  so, not only are you just downright horrible, but you’re a hypocrite as well to display your own ignorance an apathy for other human beings who suffer. 

two, you go first.  or maybe i should try your tactic, since you’re sensitive to the issue of rape but not suicide: go get lost in a dark alley.  

@too_pretty_to_die@xanga - 1. You’re not struggling.

2. Kill yourself.

@six6vi@xanga - being a troll is horribly unattractive, you know.  not to mention, ad hominem attacks are a sign of immaturity.  what are you, 14?

@MILF_Academy@xanga - i second this story with my own.  

probably according to some of the people here, i have technically been raped.  i went to a party, got so drunk that i blacked out, and woke up next to a guy i barely knew.  my friends could confirm that not only had i said yes, i was the one who dragged him into the bedroom that night.  so no, i don’t blame him.  i said yes and initiated the sex, and it was not his responsibility to behave in any other way.  he is not a rapist, and i am not a victim.  

@Faithful_Spot@xanga - Where did I ever say or imply that it was their fault at all?  I as a rule rarely if ever discuss “fault” because I consider it a generally destructive concept.  We can hold the perpetrator responsible while advising the victim how better to protect himself.  We do this as a matter of course without getting all up in arms about “blaming the victim” with matters such as burglary, identity theft and others.

@TiredSoVeryTired@xanga - about clothing and rape:  I was 3 years old when I was molested by a man I did not know and his girlfriend–I dont know what I was wearing.  But of course i was a ‘sex object’ in whatever i was wearing by many of these peoples ideas.  I was taken from my back yard, not a dark alley…. I was in no way shape or form asking for it….

the second time was when I was 18- I was wearing jeans and a hoodie, my hair pulled back…..

thank you for saying there is not a correlation between clothes and rape— its not about the clothes I wear, its the sick mother fuckers who destroy lives

Yes I believe women should be careful and this is coming from a survivor— but then again once you have been through it your life becomes about being careful and taking back the control.  Many people that are raped are not raped in a dark alley, they KNOW their attacker.  People just feel more comfortable believing that rape only occurs when a woman is dressed provocative, in a dark alley, or doing something they ‘shouldn’t’ do.  This allows people to comfortably blame the victim and believe that since they don’t do the things that makes them a ‘target’ they will never be raped.

Wake up people this is not realistic! 
I was molested by my next door neighbor and raped by a man who went to my church that I knew,  I in no way shape or form asked for it or wanted it.

@too_pretty_to_die@xanga - Telling you to kill yourself is not an ad hominem.

@Lost_Muse@xanga - I really don’t think how a woman is dressed increases her chances of being raped at all actually.  Yes, there are patterns that rapists look for when they are in search of a victim, if we are talking stranger rape.  Most rape victims know their rapists so those “preventions” don’t work.  We women, more often than not, have been victims of some type of sexual harassment since elementary school when boys snapped our bras or copped a feel.  We are not stupid.  While some younger teens/young adult women may not know of ways to prevent being a victim of any kind of attack (walking in lit areas, being aware of surroundings, giving yourself an escape, etc.,) many women already know that.  And most importantly, those are men’s views on how women can help themselves by not putting themselves into dangerous situations (well lit areas haven’t always saved every woman) there is no proof that those measures even work.  Of course, you wouldn’t find me walking down a dark alley at night because I’m not stupid.  It’s one thing to teach that these are things we think reduce your chances of being a victim and quite another to sit there telling a rape victim that she was wrong to do this or that and it’s partly her fault she’s a victim.  The crime has been done, the rapist needs the blame as the victim is already going over what she did wrong in her eyes.

Of the women I know who have been raped by a stranger, none of them were dressed anything but casual.  And in nearly every case, they weren’t “selected” as the victim other than they were in the wrong place at the wrong time.  Rape is not about sexual attraction, it’s about control and opportunity. 

@six6vi@xanga - my mistake, then.  but that doesn’t change the fact that you’re a horrible individual, n’est-ce pas?  or that you fail at forming arguments, if all you can come up with is trying to get me to commit suicide.  

@striemmy@xanga - The premise of arguments involving mode of dress is that what someone wears determines how accessible they are to a rapist or how attractive they are to a rapist. It is a parallel comparison.

When you attempt to explain why criminals do what they do, you are necessarily speaking on motive and sentencing. Motive is helpful in convicting someone, but you can make a case that leaves no room for reasonable doubt without supplying the defendant’s motivations.

Responsibility sharing for? If you’re referring to the actual crime committed, you are, without question, wrong. A rapist is solely responsible for his actions, period. Whether the woman was splayed naked on her back on a mattress in the middle of the alley or just trying to get home from the club, her rapist makes the conscious decision to forcibly engage in a sex act with her. She is not remotely culpable in the act.

Now, if you believe that a victim should shoulder the responsibility, in some circumstances, for being in a less than optimal situation that leads directly to her victimization… Well, sure. She put herself there, right? And so what? It’s not illegal to sleep with your bedroom window open on a hot night. It’s not illegal to walk home at night. It’s not illegal to fail to minimize all of the risks one might possibly encounter. So what does assigning responsibility to the victim get you? A rapist who broke the law.

Poverty is one issue for SOME perpetrators. Entitlement is also an issue for some. There are factors that contribute to criminality that should be addressed. I didn’t say those factors guaranteed someone would grow up to be a criminal, nor did I intend to limit it to factors in the formation of a rapist. In fact, I did say directly that they contribute to criminality generally.

I agree. There is no comprehensive system and no individual system is designed to adequately provide support to at-risk individuals and families. Social welfare programs need to be entirely overhauled from the ground up and implemented in a radically different way. Throwing money at problems has never helped. The United States has changed from an economy based on production to an economy based on service. There is a disparity in income for many in our country that handicaps them severely. It is now the norm, after all, to have two or more sources of income in support of a family. While people are prone to protest the idea that anyone should be helped or offered something they didn’t themselves receive, all of us are dependent on an economy a large portion of our society cannot contribute to sufficiently. It’s past time to address the social mores and circumstances that got us here.

@Lost_Muse@xanga - You cannot compare identity theft and rape.  Identity theft, burglary can come with its own set of issues and loss of control.  But rape is not just a crime.  It is an all out assault that can rob the person of so much more than your credit score. 

And, IMO, you shouldn’t blame victims of crime at all if they aren’t breaking the law themselves.  Yes, it’s okay to say… shred paperwork with your personal information even after the crime.  BUT, that’s not the same as saying to a woman, “Don’t dress so sexy next time so you don’t get raped.”  Maybe she wasn’t even dressed sexy the first time. 

@weightjourney2005@xanga - I’m so sorry you had to deal with that.  I don’t get why society is so quick to want to blame women for sexual crimes committed against them.  I hope you are well.  Good Luck.

@TiredSoVeryTired@xanga - Thank you!  I think a huge thing people miss is 2 out of 3 women are sexually assaulted in their life time that’s a little more than 66% of women, and many of those 66% have been assaulted more than once…  just as many rapist dont just rape once and be done with it.

Jeffery Dahmer and Ted Bundy they are both sick men who many thought were nice guys— I am not sure who made the argument that it is the victims fault because they should know something is up— none of these victims were at fault just as none of the victims who are raped and assaulted by anyone else is at fault. So please dont be ignorant

@too_pretty_to_die@xanga - I think that’s one thing that should change…if you get drunk and say YES to sex, it should no way be considered rape just because you were under the influence. It should only be rape if the person refused, no matter the situation. Like, what if you’re married and you get drunk and you have sex with your husband? Is that rape? So stupid.

bingo.  that’s why i find most of this “don’t blame the victim!!” rhetoric to be pointless.  most sexual assaults i’ve known about personally were just one night stands gone wrong.  no guy should have the rest of his life ruined because a woman woke up the next day and regretted what she did.  and if you know that you’re the type to drunkenly agree to things you wouldn’t do sober, it’s your responsibility to keep yourself out of that situation.  it’s no stranger’s/man’s responsibility to babysit you while you’re wasted.  

@too_pretty_to_die@xanga - Believe what you want about me, I don’t really care. Nor have I failed at an “argument” since we’re not having a discussion on any topic. I simply wish for you to die a horrible death. Is that so much to ask for?

@six6vi@xanga - well in all fairness, in return, i’m hoping you get gang banged behind a gas station.  so i guess we’re even?

@WannaBeFit73@xanga - What does the relationship status between two people have to do with determining if it’s rape? Are you saying a spouse can’t rape?

@too_pretty_to_die@xanga - What’s wrong with a gang bang? Lots of people do itttt. Not I, but I’m sure many people do it. It’s still better than killing myself.

@six6vi@xanga - No, I know they can rape…if one of them says no. But being married would just make it even more ridiculous to say its rape when someone says yes even if they were drunk.

@WannaBeFit73@xanga - Why would it be more ridiculous just because you have a ring on your finger? Last I checked one of the standard vows during marriage isn’t “I give you access to my crotch anytime you want it.” If you think marriage is about giving up your rights to your body then you’re astonishingly clueless. 

@six6vi@xanga -  Nowhere did I say marriage is about giving up your body rights. You can try actually reading and comprehending ya know.

@too_pretty_to_die@xanga - And why should it all fall on the woman for responsibility? You are right, it’s not a stranger’s job to babysit the waisted girl, but it’s not right to jump into bed with her while she’s so waisted she won’t remember who you are in the morning. If you find her that attractive then what ever happened to getting her number and calling her when she’s sober? If a guy sleeps with a girl who can barely stand up then he should be expecting her to yell “rape” in the morning about as much as a girl should be expecting to have something slipped into their drink; unlikely but still possible so protect yourself from the situation as much as possible.

@WannaBeFit73@xanga - Do you know what the word inference means? No?

How about actually answering the question then? How does having a ring on your finger make rape more ridiculous?

@TiredSoVeryTired@xanga - It’s not against the law to leave your
house dressed as some would say “looking like a whore”. Who said it was?

Are
you suggesting that any time a woman leaves her home dressed sparingly
she should be punished by getting raped?  I’m not saying someone should be punished for dressing like a whore, you’re just twisting my words around to make it easier for you to respond; I’m saying don’t expect to not face some type of harrassment when you put yourself out there to be harrassed.

It is not society’s job to punish a woman who dresses “whorish”.  This is 21st Century America.  It’s not backwards thinking to think that the way a woman dresses is solely up to her, not anyone else. Again, not one said a woman could not dress like a whore, just be ready for some of the negative connotations brought on by it.

  Being naked in public is against the law so the police can ticket/arrest anyone naked… nobody has the right to rape that person.  No where in any of my statements did I say someone has a right to rape someone, that wasn’t even my tone; again you’re just twisting my words around so you can have a response.

I’m not saying women should dress like whores, I’m saying if they choose to that doesn’t mean any man has the right to rape her and society doesn’t have the right to judge her or place part of the blame on her for her being a victim.  Well, society is going to judge and some people are going to rape, my standpoint on the issue is, why not take the necessary precautions?

@Faithful_Spot@xanga - Wouldn’t that be an issue of the prevalence of low self esteem in women?

@WannaBeFit73@xanga - Don’t bother. She’s kinda a douche-nugget.

@Prolixity_Split@xanga - It is a parallel comparison if and only if it is directly causal. If a woman wears slutty clothing but has an air of confidence, alertness and toughness about her she is less likely to be raped than someone who looks easier to subdue. If a guy has a sufficiently expensive watch on, it doesn’t really matter how big and menacing he looks. A gun will give a criminal enough confidence to pursue it. 

I agree that we are necessarily talking about motive. I do not agree, especially on a global scale, that this discussion necessarily entails sentencing, especially considering that in some parts of the world a rapist can commit rape with no sentencing of any sort.

A crime is motive + opportunity. If you create opportunity for a crime to be perpetrated against you where there wasn’t one or doesn’t have to be one then you are in part responsible for the crime. Moreover, regardless of the issue of responsibility there which is obviously an issue where we won’t find agreement on, everyone is responsible for themselves and the things that happen in their lives, period. Eschewing blame is a nice way of continuing to have people raped and robbed. Taking personal responsibility is a nice way to prevent many of these crimes from happening. This victim-creation culture is in and of itself a part of the problem. I just believe my view is more functional then the one you’re promoting. Asking yourself what you could have done better, what you can do better in the future, or what other people have done to avoid situations that you wish to avoid in the future is a more personally responsible and logistically functional model for avoiding becoming a victim than trying to rid humanity of its ills. I don’t believe criminality is a curable societal ailment. Even if it were, my view is still more functional. Ensuring that the developmental factors that create rapists do not impact the youth of today does not retroactively cure the youth of yesteryear, who still can and will rape the snot out of anyone they get their hands on. 

I agree with the rest. 

^ Still mad and butt hurt he lost an argument lololol

TL;DR but I love Easy A and that leading actress is a fox. LOVE her personality. 

@aimeethefairy@xanga - 

“And why should it all fall on the woman for responsibility?”
i don’t know about you, but i was raised to believe that the only thing you really have control over is yourself.  if it’s not a woman’s responsibility to make sure she doesn’t get so drunk that she agrees to do things she wouldn’t normally do sober, whose exactly is it?  
“If a guy sleeps with a girl who can barely stand up then he should be expecting her to yell “rape”"
not if at any point she said yes.  

@six6vi@xanga - well, it’s good to hear you’re up for it.  so remind me again, why do you want me to commit suicide when i’m wishing wonderful things for you?

@six6vi@xanga - Idk I guess because married people have sex? I can’t really explain it but it’s just weird to make a big deal of a man having drunk sex with his wife. My parents get drunk all the damn time and have sex, what’s the big deal? Oh, and I didn’t infer anything at all, dear. If I was, then I would have said that it doesn’t mean shit when a spouse says no.

@striemmy@xanga - Yeah, she must just wanna argue today. Or she’s just really fucking nit-picky.

@too_pretty_to_die@xanga - Alcohol in high enough quantity is just as mind altering as any date rape drug. If a woman is too intoxicated to understand that she is saying yes, who she is saying yes to, or to fully understand the nature of what she is saying yes to then it is rapeaccording to the law. The specific link is for New Zealand but that same law is also in place in most of Europe and most English speaking countries and/or islands, including the US.

@too_pretty_to_die@xanga - Just because a woman is dressed in a short skirt and a low-cut top doesn’t mean she’s saying “hey come and rape me.” They’re wearing clothes, not a “rape me” sign. Rape is WRONG no matter what the woman is wearing. You should respect everyone equally, no matter what they look like or how they act.  It’s our right as a human being. Just because a woman dresses sexually doesn’t make it okay for a man to rape her. I understand how it  may lure a man’s eye easier, but if a man is going to rape you it doesn’t matter if you’re wearing a sweatshirt or a bathing suit or a skimpy dress. What the woman is wearing has nothing to do with it. There is something psychologically wrong in the rapist’s mind that makes them rape others.

Prevention can only go so far. Woman are physically less stronger than men, so men automatically have that advantage. Yeah sure, the woman could carry around pepper spray or whatever, but what is she supposed to keep it in her back pocket all the time? Rape occurs even at times people never think it will, as I stated with the women running through the park. A woman can dress provacatively her whole life and never get raped, but a woman who dresses conservatively may be raped twice in her lifetime. It just depends if you ever happen to have the misfortune of crossing paths with a rapist and they pick you.

@theflowerstem@xanga - I’m not twisting your words at all.  My post you responded to was about rape.  I think most grown women know that they will face harassment from men based on the way they dress.  I’m sure most of us are not clueless about that.  There is a difference between taking what each us perceives as being necessary cautions against harassment and rape, and blaming a rape victim for her own rape by concluding she dressed inappropriately.  Of the women I know who have been raped by a stranger, none of them were dressed like “sluts” or “whores”. 

And even if a woman dresses like a “whore”, nobody else in society has some kind of given-right to harass her.  If you go out in public, showing a bit of cleavage well probably you already know to expect some attention.  Doesn’t mean you are up for some sexual harassment at the same time. 

Probably the best advice to prevent rape is 1)removal of your vagina/mouth/anus/hands/feet and 2) carrying mace.  Who knows what the best advice is, but it’s not to shame women into sexual submission by dressing like a grandma all day. 

@too_pretty_to_die@xanga - In many, if not all, states a drunk person cannot legally give consent to sex.  

@MILF_Academy@xanga - I’m sorry that happened to you!  While I agree that it is common sense and part of the healing process to look at your own actions and decide what you did wrong and how you can further prevent becoming a victim again THAT is far different from other people blaming you for getting raped by dressing a certain way or putting yourself into a dangerous situation.  Here’s some reactions to someone else being raped.

1) It’s her own fault for being stupid by dressing like a whore and getting drunk.

2) Let’s talk about her choices because her actions seemed to increase the chances a jerk will take advantage of a woman. 

Words count/matter. 

“We’re a culture that teaches “don’t get raped,” instead of “don’t rape.” –

OI! Credit that too. Its not your quote.

If I were to walk around in short shorts with my boobs hanging out looking like a slut, then I probably am a slut. I think it’s okay to use words like that, it will deter girls from wanting to do those actions or wear those clothes. 

Plus what you are calling slutty clothes in here sounds like a stripper. I don’t know anyone that wears tiny skirts and huge heels and cover themselves in glitter, unless they are a stripper. And being a stripper is kind of slutty lol.

If you make yourself vulnerable, you will be vulnerable. If you dress provocatively, you’re provoking the sicko’s out there. I, personally, don’t put myself into these situations. Then again, I’m a modest, cautious person – I don’t go out alone at night (my city has a high crime rate) without my husband, my dog, or a knife, I don’t get drunk outside the confines of my own home, I don’t go out dressed in skimpy clothing that would catch the eye of a predator (though clothing is the lesser of the mistakes you could make). However, I don’t ever think it’s okay to blame a victim. I would just HOPE they would learn from whatever mistakes they made, like from too much alcohol consumption, walking alone at night in a crime filled city, inviting strangers into your home, etc. Some rapes are unavoidable, though, so no mistakes might have been made by the victim.

As for the slut shaming, well, that’s a different story. The way you dress is an expression of who you are. In my opinion, if you go out with shorts up your ass and your boobs hanging out, then you’re doing it so they will be noticed in a sexual way. Does this make you a slut? No. BUT, if does make you susceptible to being judged as a slut. People will always judge others. If you have a problem with being called a slut, then stop dressing like one. If you want to dress that way NO MATTER WHAT, then “turn off your ears” and keep dressing like a slut. Just don’t complain when someone assumes you are one. — If someone went out wearing a clown costume in full clown makeup with multicolored hair, then the general population would assume you were a clown.

while the issues can be combined in situations, it seems like you’re making it perminantly simultinious. no, it’s never ok to say someone got raped because they were a slut. i agree that it’s also degrading to throw that word around. however, i don’t think it’s possible to insist that everyone give up their personal oppinions one what ‘slutty’ behavior is. For example, in the situation you described about a woman cheating, I wouldn’t blame anyone for calling her names. I mostly agree with you that people need to be open minded and aware of women’s rights, but at the same time, you can’t dictate what our oppinions should be involving people’s behavior.

@what_you_feel_is_what_you_are@xanga - 

“Just because a woman is dressed in a short skirt and a low-cut top doesn’t mean she’s saying “hey come and rape me.”"
that’s true.  and just because i might leave my front door unlocked, that doesn’t mean i’m saying “hey come rob my house.”  what it IS saying, however, is “i don’t care enough about my stuff to want to do whatever i can to prevent a robbery.” and i’d have to be an utter dumbass to leave myself vulnerable in that way and not expect something bad to happen to me eventually.  
besides, i believe that you are what you wear.  unless your parents still control your wardrobe, it’s one of the few ways everyone is guaranteed to express themselves.  if you want to dress slutty, go for it.  but you’ll probably be treated like a slut.  
“Rape is WRONG no matter what the woman is wearing.”
please quote me on where i said rape is ever right.  i’m starting to wonder if you even read a word i said.  let me spell it out: I AM NOT BLAMING THE VICTIM.  Jesus Christ, get that through your thick skull.  i do not, nor have i ever, see rape as some type of punishment for dressing slutty.  it’s merely an event, a consequence of the choices of a number of people.  i seriously don’t understand your thought process here…
it seems like you want to argue that it is impossible to hold the rapist responsible for his actions, while simultaneously holding the woman responsible for hers.  is this true?

@TiredSoVeryTired@xanga - @aimeethefairy@xanga - i don’t agree with that at all.  as an intelligent human being, i am responsible for myself.  if no one was forcing me to get drunk, then i am responsible for any and everything i do while i’m drunk.  men aren’t mind readers, and i don’t expect them to say no for me (especially if we aren’t dating in any capacity).  

@aheartofglitter@xanga - who originally said it? I’ve just heard a lot of people use the expression, so I figured it was an expression, not a direct quote.

@TiredSoVeryTired@xanga - And even if a woman dresses like a “whore”, nobody else in society has some kind of given-right to harass her. You don’t have to have the “right” to do something in order to commit the act. Again, no one has the right to do any har to anyone, but if you know that you’re increasing your chances of harm then why not change it?  <<<<<<You’re not responding to that, you’re making it seem like I’m saying a woman deserves to be raped if she’s wearing slutty clothing and I’m not saying that at all. Wearing slutty clothing does make you more vunerable, I’m not even talking about the women that didn’t get raped not wearing slutty clothes or the women that got raped by someone they knew.

but it’s not to shame women into sexual submission by dressing like a grandma all day.  Wearing slutty clothes does not define a woman’s sexuality, clothes in general do not define sexuality. Gosh. In all honesty sexuality doesn’t even exist, it’s really an illusion and I’m getting off topic.

@theflowerstem@xanga - Yes, it makes sense to present yourself in a certain light so that more often than not you are treated a certain way.  But that still doesn’t mean it is okay to treat someone poorly for the way they dress.

Human sexuality is individual.  It’s not up to me to define how someone else acts out or displays their sexuality.  It’s only my job to always be kind to people. 

@TiredSoVeryTired@xanga - But that still doesn’t mean it is okay to treat someone poorly for the way they dress. I didn’t say it did and neither did the tone of my comments.

Human sexuality is individual. Yeah, it depends on that individuals actions.

olololol. We do teach in our culture that “rape is wrong.” NEVER in the Justin Derulo song does he say “you’ll be screaming no.” I stopped reading after that part.

It is never a girls fault that she got raped. However, it is well known in this society that there are predators. Whether they be robbers, rapists, or whatever. We need to do what we can to protect ourselves from them. This means: locking your doors, not walking down dark alleyways, not getting blackout drunk in public, not walking home by yourself blackout drunk. Whenever I hang out with a new guy that is a potential future boyfriend (but just recently met, so I don’t know everything about him) I always let a friend know where I am, what I am doing and a time she should expect to hear from me by. It seems silly and paranoid but I want to make sure I am safe. Often times people are raped by acquaintances. If I do drink, I always make sure there is someone there who is sober and can account for me (although even this is terrible because it is putting someone else in charge of me, which is why I recommend not drinking heavily) I also recommend people not running with music despite how enjoyable it is. There are terrible people out there, we need to protect ourselves. I wish there weren’t rapists and etc… but there are.

@theflowerstem@xanga - Earlier you stated something like… shouldn’t a woman who dresses like a whore suffer negative reactions… something along those lines.  So, no she shouldn’t… obviously if she’s smart she’d know dressing a certain way may bring unwanted stares/comments, etc. 

(I’m sorry if I got your comment mixed up with someone else.)

@TiredSoVeryTired@xanga - I said a woman who dresses like a whore shouldn’t expect to NOT recieve negative attention.

@WannaBeFit73@xanga - 1. I know you didn’t infer anything, I was speaking about myself. You couldn’t possibly have inferred anything because that requires logic and the ability to use deductive reasoning. 

2. You don’t have to be married to have sex, there’s really no point to even bringing up marriage. Rape is rape. If you say no, period, it’s rape. If you are not conscious TO say no, then it is rape. It isn’t any fucking different just because the state recognizes you live together and share matching rings. Just because your parents need to get drunk to be intimate doesn’t change the reality of the nature of rape. 

@too_pretty_to_die@xanga - Because you’re an idiot. 

@six6vi@xanga - uh-huh.  well, thank you for sharing your opinion.  but i don’t tend to value the opinion of trolls.  

why is this post on lovelyish?   it is shockingly full of value and really thoughtful commentary on society.  

I agree with everything even though I skimmed through- I hope you’ll trust me when I say I know it back and front after four years of college and intense involvement with a feminist group that runs Sexual Assault Awareness Week.  

I wish I had the time to comment back to every one of the commentators on here that don’t get it, but alas, that would probably take a really, really long time.    My advice when blogging about issues like this is to really take it one step at a time for people, otherwise they get sort of overwhelmed- like blog about how people dress in one post, how people label sexuality in another post, the virgin/whore dichotomy in a third post.

 It allows you to be a little more specific and address the potential naysayers more (I would bet 5,000 dollars someone in these comments will talk about women as if they are homes and the whole “Would you leave your house unlocked?  Well then why wear a miniskirt?”   Sort of logic).    But that’s just my 2 cents on how to douse the hatorade a little. 

The best thing we can do to end rape culture is force people to acknowledge that it exists, push for legislation that does not condone rape culture, and educate ourselves on our own inherent biases.

Also, I would just like to say to any trolls crusin through the comments ready to blast any women who wears heels at night, rape occurs everywhere, to every possible group of people.  

You shouldn’t wear sexy clothing!

People are raped wearing sweatpants and tshirts.   People who wear conservative clothing (hijabs, burqua) are raped.

You shouldn’t walk down streets alone!

People are raped in their own homes.

You shouldn’t get drunk!

Sober people are raped.  

You shouldn’t talk to strange men!

People are raped by acquaintances and people they trust.

Rape is not about what we should or should not do as potential victims, otherwise 100% of us would be guilty for assaults done against us, because sooner or later we’ve all done something that one could say “encouraged” someone to assault us.    Until we take a firm stand in saying that rape is not okay, regardless of what she (or he) is wearing, doing, drinking, or “implying,” rape culture will persist.

@ScarletMoth@xanga - WELL SAID!!!!

Eh, I’d go with saying, I wasn’t raped because of the way I look, I was raped because someone raped me.

I never thought rape to be something of a sexual type, rather one of control. Dehumanization. 

@too_pretty_to_die@xanga - Never told you to value my opinion. I told you to kill yourself

I’m a guy, but it kinda upsets me that its never a win for the girl. If she doesn’t do anything with her bf, she’s a prude, if she does stuff with her bf, she’s a slut. It’s something that just annoys me. 

Sluts are awesome. All chicks should definitely have the liberty to put out whenever and wherever they please, with whomever they please without shame or inhibition.

@six6vi@xanga - and i’m politely declining.  are you going to keep responding?  because i can do this all day.  

@too_pretty_to_die@xanga - I’m sure you can. At least I know you’re committing social suicide, that brings me comfort and joy.

@six6vi@xanga - social suicide?  on what, xanga?  you are aware that there is a life beyond your computer, correct?  

@too_pretty_to_die@xanga - Actually I was inferring that the fact that you spend all your time Xanga was social suicide, I see where your focus is. 

@six6vi@xanga - see, the problem with that idea is that i’m 25 years old.  being “social” has a different meaning when you become an adult with a full-time job and bills to pay.  i have all the friends i need, not to mention the most amazing man in the universe.  and i’m not going to lose any of that by hanging out on the internet on a Sunday night.  

when one’s right is taken away by another, often, there are few or even no questions as to who is at fault. but i don’t get why when one imposes on someone’s right to say no to sex, why the fault is put into question.

@six6vi@xanga - “I told you to kill yourself ”

I figured this is your way of asking for a link about cyber bullying or something (because why else would anyone so something so cruel on the internet, knowing they are speaking to another human being?   Why else would someone go to such a level on a topic that does not in any way need to involve death threats?), so

http://www.stopcyberbullying.org/

…just saying… these is a good topic to talk about, honestly.   Can’t we just ignore the haters rather than feed them vitriol? 

@ScarletMoth@xanga - You’re late, this conversation is already over. Not to mention you’ve cyberbullied plenty in the past, get over me. 

@too_pretty_to_die@xanga - Just Sunday? You sure about that?

@too_pretty_to_die@xanga - 
“If a guy sleeps with a girl who can barely stand up then he should be expecting her to yell “rape”
“not if at any point she said yes.”

–to add my two cents: I think this is a pretty depressing view of the world, and I definitely think more people need to be aware of “enthusiastic consent”; i.e., BOTH partners are ENTHUSIASTICALLY consenting, because this is a lot more clear than “just say no.”   The problem with “yes at any time” is that it obviously allows for a lot of situation in which coercion is prominent.    The problematic extension of this is that many rapists have gotten off even after it is clear that the woman said no, because she did not “do enough to fight back.”   Even though rape is traumatic, terrifying, and not everyone’s first instinct is to try to pummel the person, the idea that “anything other than shouting no and clawing the person’s eyes out means yes” has very negative consequences.

In the case you mention, yes, this is rape.   It doesn’t even matter if she said yes if she is so drunk she can’t stand.   And we should, for the benefit of both men AND women, be advocating for a society in which sexuality is understand and not chastised; in other words, a society in which it would seem absolutely ludicrous that a man would even WANT to have sex with a women who is more or less unconscious as he does it.

There is a reason that we do not want our doctors to perform surgery while drunk (at least I don’t, I would assume you don’t) or our kid’s bus drivers to be high; because we understand such actions significantly impair their judgment and actions.   So while personal responsibility is important, there are many instances in society in which we acknowledge that “you are not able to make the same decisions you normally do” while inebriated.

@six6vi@xanga - the conversation is over but the internet lasts forever.

Not sure what instance you’re referring to about me- I haven’t been on xanga for several months at least

@ScarletMoth@xanga - The internet lasts forever? lol Did you seriously just say something so simple minded? Honey, I would explain it to you in a technical sense but it would be a waste and I’d have to explain a lot of things but in plain speak, no, no it doesn’t last forever. Things on the internet do have an expiration date. We are not in a world of infinite… anything.  

@six6vi@xanga - All you’re doing is putting words into my mouth lol. Jeez, you’re so bored you have to make up shit in order to start an argument. Hop off bitch.

@WannaBeFit73@xanga - So in short, you’re an idiot and you wish you hadn’t said anything so stupid. Check. 

@six6vi@xanga - to my knowledge, yes.  i wasn’t even home most of today, anywho.  

@six6vi@xanga -without popping out the dictionary to explain hyperbole, instead I’ll say, “conversations on xanga are not like conversations between two people in real life in that they, unless deleted, can be viewed until this website ceases to function or decides to delete its archives, and on xanga conversations function differently than in real life in that there is often more of a time lag between one person responding to the next.”

Personally I thought the first way was simpler and more or less conveyed the same sentiment, but, there you are…

@too_pretty_to_die@xanga - Yeah I tried to stay out but the heat was ridiculous today. ;x 

@six6vi@xanga - Lmao. Yeah, ok dumbass. I think you need to take your meds, like soon.

@ScarletMoth@xanga - Irrelevant. Whether I say it through text or verbally she still heard me. Someone else isn’t going to read our interaction and decide to kill themselves, so really you have no point. 

@WannaBeFit73@xanga - Whatever, fat bimbo. ;x

@six6vi@xanga - I’m not saying anyone would kill themselves, I’m sorry if my words were accidentally interpreted that way.  

@six6vi@xanga - Oh shit! I didn’t know I was dealing with an 8th grader! Haha wow.

@WannaBeFit73@xanga - Is this the extent of your intellect? I’m sure you can come up with a better insult than that. 

@six6vi@xanga - It’s no different than the lame ass insult you used on me.

No but really, I don’t give a fuck about how “good” my insults can be. But you seem kinda like a crazy, nasty bitch and that’s really all I have to say! All you wanna do is throw insults at people for simply having a different opinion, and if you wanna live your life like that…sucks for you I guess lol

@WannaBeFit73@xanga - That’s it?

@six6vi@xanga - Uh yeah, I’m not as bored with my life as you are with yours..so I don’t feel the need to get into some stupid argument just to see who can throw out better insults. Sounds like a lame party to me. Sorry! I’m sure you can find someone else out there to fulfill your needs. 

@too_pretty_to_die@xanga - Ummm i never said anything about not holding the rapist responsible in fact I stated several time how the rapist would be repsonsible, such as how there is something psychologically wrong with them and no excuse for their actions. I never even said the woman was responsible for anything! In fact I stated the total opposite, saying the victim shouldn’t be blamed at all! I think maybe you’re thinking of someone else’s comment.

I understand how a woman who dresses trashier is more inviting, but that doesn’t have anything to do with rape. Children get raped. Babies get raped. I’ve never seen a slutty baby.

I feel like you were stating how rape is not a problem if the woman was dressed provocatively. You said “i don’t believe a woman who presents herself like a
sexual party favor should expect to be treated as anything else”. That’s basically saying if a woman is too sexual, then it’s okay to do anything sexual that you want to do with her. To me, that’s saying rape is okay if she’s “asking for it.”

When will people start to realize that a woman’s body is not public property?

No means no. End of fucking story.

@WannaBeFit73@xanga - Yes you do.

@too_pretty_to_die@xanga - Well it is still law whether you agree with it or not. Just because a woman gets drunk and has sex with a guy doesn’t mean that she actually wanted it. Plenty of drunk people get talked into it in their drunken state. What I am trying to say is the door swings both ways. If you don’t know the person and see that they are too drunk to know what they are doing the proper thing is to not take them to bed.

@six6vi@xanga - it’s supposed to be even worse today.  and of course, this is the day everyone picked to have BBQs.  ugh.

@aimeethefairy@xanga - that’s probably true.  but i don’t believe that a guy should suffer with the label of “rapist” for the rest of his life because he did something that we can merely deem as improper.  

@too_pretty_to_die@xanga - Tell me about it. I really thought about cooking everything yesterday and serving the rest up as left overs for today. Oh well *shrugs*

@what_you_feel_is_what_you_are@xanga - 

“ To me, that’s saying rape is okay if she’s “asking for it.”“
then you fail at understanding.  one, i’m not sure what you mean by “too sexual.”  most of my friends would consider me too sexual, because i think about and want sex almost all the time.  but i don’t dress like a hooker.  how you dress, whether you like it or not, is how others see you.  when i see someone dressed like they work at a strip club, i don’t automatically think they’re sex-obsessed.  for all i know, they could even be virgins.  but dressing like that doesn’t send that message.  do i think she deserves to be raped?  no.  do i think she deserves respect?  no.  
two, there’s a difference in acknowledging choices that increase the likelihood of a crime, and using that to determine responsibility.  what i AM saying is, if a woman presents herself as nothing more than a sex toy, she shouldn’t expect men to see her as anything but that.  that doesn’t change the fact that rape is a crime, but it does demonstrate that you’re far more likely to be a victim. 
 if a thief watching me sees that i frequently forget to lock my car when i come home at night, i’m far more likely to get robbed.  that doesn’t change the fact that what happened was a crime.  but i’m certainly not doing my part to prevent it.  and the fact that a crime happened to me doesn’t alter my personal responsibility to do whatever i can to protect myself.  

i’m indifferent about this blog.. rape is a sensitive subject in general.. whether you have or have not been rape everyone has a different view on it.. “rape is about control not sex.. rape is someone asking for it because of the way they dress.. rape only happens to women.. the rapist is the male gender.. rape is cause by the victim, it’s the victim’s fault”

rape IS about control AND sex and it’s pretty much a mind fuck.. it will fuck you up not only phyiscally but emotionally and mentally.. people has fail to mention it has those psychological repercussions.. rape is a tool for that person (rapist) to take control of something they don’t have control of in this world.. it’s horrific and sad at the same time that rape is used as a tool to take control of another human being by means of forced and unwanted sexual advances sober or not sober..

OP: I agree pretty much 100% with everything you said.  And a LOT of the comments on here prove exactly what you’re talking about by rape culture and slut shaming.  The main problem is that our society sends 2 big messages:

1. You’re only out for yourself, so you should do whatever the fuck you want because it’s other people’s responsibility to look out for themselves (this is the part that excuses rapists from responsibility when they rape a drunk girl or a girl wearing a short skirt).

2. Just go ahead and be judgmental, it’s okay, and Jesus still loves you and you’re cool.  So feel free to assume things about someone’s entire personality based on outward appearance (this is the part that causes women to call each other bitch, slut, whore, cunt, blah blah blah, whether out of jealousy or just plain being a mean fucking vindictive person. This is also the part that teaches man it’s accurate to assume that sexy outfit = she wants to have sex with you).

Should we educate women about how to reduce their riskof getting raped?  YES, we should because it’s stupid no to.  But does that mean that a rape victim should take some of the responsibility if she is doing something risky and someone forces his dick inside her?  FUCK NO.

If someone gets mugged in a city because they were walking alone, do we place the entirety of blame on that individual? No, we blame the mugger.  If an old lady (like my grandma, for example, who never locks her door) leaves her door unlocked at night and some guy breaks in, beats her senseless, and then robs her and steals her car, do we say she was being stupid and it was her fault?  This actually just happened last week in the city where I live.  NO, of course it’s not her fault.  And if you think the criminal shouldn’t be blamed in either of the above situations, then you’re part of the problem mentality.

So why the FUCK do we, especially as women, go around saying stuff like “Well, she went and drank 3 martinis and was wearing heels and had cleavage and lots of eyeliner, so it was her fault that someone forced her down, put his hand over her mouth, yanked her pants down, and violated her”….why do we say that?

Maybe if we were all to start forcing ourselves to describe the crime itself in graphic detail and exact terms, we would feel less like it’s okay to say that it’s a rape victim’s fault.  Because this would force us to face the truth.  Instead of saying “If you dress like a slut then you’re to blame if you get raped,” we should say “If you go out for a couple drinks and wear an outfit that accentuates your body and looks really cute and sexy, then you are to blame if a chauvanist pig of a man holds you down, covers your mouth, and forces his penis into your vagina while you cry and try to scream ‘No’.”

Because that is the cold hard truth of what happens.  Perhaps if we were all to put ourselves in a rape victim’s shoes and force ourselves to think, really picture EXCACTLY WHAT HAPPENS during a rape, we might have a little bit of (God forbid) compassion and perspective, which could help to empower and unite all of us rather than reducing our views of other women to 8th grade things like slutty whore or prude or whatever other judgments we make.

Sorry for the book I just wrote, but the whole “victim can be blamed” mentality just really pisses me off and says a lot about our society, none of which is good.

@too_pretty_to_die@xanga - 

If you’re saying someone doesn’t deserve respect, because of how they’re dressed then that’s just very shallow. And your view is very contradicting. Saying someone doesn’t deserve to be raped but they also don’t deserve respect. Then how should they be treated if they don’t deserve respect? Should they be treated like trash?

I already understand how there are ways to better prevent yourself from certain things happening, but it also can’t always be prevented. It can also happen unexpectedly to the least likely people. Prevention shouldn’t be the main focal point. Instead it should be teaching men to respect women no matter how they are dressed and that is is wrong to rape them.

jason derulo sings, “you’ll be screamin’ ohh.” just saying.

@ScarletMoth@xanga - ”And we should, for the benefit of both men AND women, be advocating for a society in which sexuality is understand and not chastised; in other words, a society in which it would seem absolutely ludicrous that a man would even WANT to have sex with a women who is more or less unconscious as he does it.”

I completely agree with that.  There is a bigger problem than just individual people that have socially deviant behavior or dress provacatively or whatever else.  A person with any sense of decency would not want to have sex with a partner that is completely out of it both mentally and physically.  Perhaps if we tried to instill that sense of decency as a cultural norm rather than saying that not wanting to have sex with a drunk person means you’re a prude or don’t know how to have fun…well, maybe then we would have a start at fixing the problem.  Can’t fix a problem if you don’t start at the cause, really.

@ScarletMoth@xanga - @too_pretty_to_die@xanga - Thank you ScarletMoth. This is Exactly what I am trying to say.

@too_pretty_to_die@xanga - If it were simply improper then I would agree with you, but as I stated, and showed you in the previous link the law states that yes they should be labeled that for the rest of their life.  Any person with eyes and over the age of about 14 (give or take depending on personal situations of said person) can tell when an individual is drunk. Drinking impairs judgment  is also a fact that we learn very early in life. So how can you justify someone sleeping with a woman who is only saying yes because she is intoxicated?

To put this into a little bit of perspective let me tell you a little story. A few years ago I was at a birthday party, got so drunk that I passed out on the couch. My boyfriend then kindly moved me to the bedroom and like a real person should left me to sleep it off. I woke up with the party still going on and still very drunk, and with one of the other party-goers hand on my hoo-hah. I wasn’t registering what was going on I just registered “ohh that feels kinda good”. So of course I didn’t stop him I was barley able to move. My brother lucky for me walked in and stopped things before they got too out of hand. I’m not exactly sure if that is considered rape due to the lack of penile penetration but when I learned what happened I was horrified and felt deeply deeply violated.I was severely intoxicated so I didn’t say no, it is still unclear to me this day 4 years later if I said yes. But from knowing him before the party and the fact I had a boyfriend, much less one in the other room I know I would have said no if I were fully aware of what was going on. And that is what the law is there for. If you KNOW 110% that if you would have said no when you were sober. Sure there are probably people who abuse that but you have to trust that the police will figure that part out.

@bass_chick57

I would just like to thank you for posting this. Rape is always wrong and the posters that are defending it are despicable.

@aimeethefairy@xanga - 

“So how can you justify someone sleeping with a woman who is only saying yes because she is intoxicated?”
because, ultimately, i believe that everyone is responsible only for him- and herself. all other crimes involving intoxication (drunk driving, for instance) places the responsibility on the intoxicated alone.  why not with intoxicated sex?  why not make having drunk sex just as illegal as driving drunk, if it’s truly such an impairment to one’s judgment?  i don’t see why the man should be the only one held criminally liable.
“If you KNOW 110% that if you would have said no when you were sober.”
if you’re so sure of that, then next time don’t get drunk.
i’ll share a story of my own.  one party i went to, i got blackout drunk and woke up naked next to a guy i barely knew.  i could tell that i had had sex, and he had been pretty wasted too.  after following up with fellow party goers, i could confirm that not only had i said an emphatic yes, but i was the one who dragged him into the bedroom.  but i can also confidently say that had i not been drinking, i never would have looked twice at the guy.  so is that rape?  should that guy be considered a rapist for taking advantage of a situation i am 100% responsible for facilitating?  absolutely not.  no one forced me to drink, no one drugged me or tied me down.  i made a bad choice.  i should be the one to pay for that, not someone else.  

@what_you_feel_is_what_you_are@xanga - 

“If you’re saying someone doesn’t deserve respect, because of how they’re dressed then that’s just very shallow. “
i only respect people the same amount they seem to respect themselves.  unless your wardrobe choices are completely out of your control, i cannot fathom the type of adult who would dress in a way that does not reflect their inner expectations.  
“Then how should they be treated if they don’t deserve respect? Should they be treated like trash?”
unless you want to make disrespect a criminal act, why not?  i’m sorry, i just don’t see why i should treat someone like a saint when they walk around looking like they just finished a porno.  i have no respect for people who whore themselves out in any form, but at least true whores treat it like a real business and get paid for their work.  the average girl in the club is just doing it for attention or a free drink.  why should i feel sorry for them when they get that attention?  
and i even used to be that girl… the one who’d wear low-cut tops and then complain when guys just stared at my breasts.  i’d make out with guys at parties but wonder why none of them wanted to actually date me.  it was completely idiotic of me.  i wanted to turn myself into a victim and pretend that i had no control over the situation, so that i could justify the way i behaved.  
it IS possible to show disrespect without physically violating someone, you know.  just because i think a girl in the club is a nasty slut (or at least, looks like one), that doesn’t mean i want to see her get raped.  this isn’t an all-or-nothing issue.  and this is coming from a reformed nasty slut.  
“Instead it should be teaching men to respect women no matter how they are dressed and that is is wrong to rape them.”
i frankly don’t see why the two go hand in hand.  my SO has no respect for women who dress like trash.  i don’t think he’s ever going to rape one of them.  

@ScarletMoth@xanga - 

“So while personal responsibility is important, there are many instances in society in which we acknowledge that “you are not able to make the same decisions you normally do” while inebriated.”
fine.  then treat it like the examples you mentioned: place the criminal liability on the intoxicated party, not the potentially sober party taking advantage of the situation.  i’d LOVE to see a law that says no one can have sex drunk without written sober consent.  if a girl is fall-down drunk and mistakenly says yes to sex, i don’t see why it should be the man only who is punished.  

@too_pretty_to_die@xanga - I didn’t mean to say those were comparable instances of sobriety just because they both involved being intoxicated, I only used them to show what I meant: that the law understands that intoxicated people behave differently.   But the law is not saying you are committing a crime when you drink in your free time; indeed, it is perfectly acceptable for busdrivers to drink and get drunk, so long as they are not operating a bus.    In fact the law, for better or for worse, says that you are not able to consent to sex when you are drunk, and so if we’re going to get real legal-shmegal, for now that is the official word.   
The law works to protect those who can not as easily protect themselves (like the children that might be in the bus being driven by someone drunk.   The children are not “taking advantage” of a drunk driver by being in the car- the cars that hit the drunk car are not “taking advantage” of the drunk driver in in way.   These people did not have a choice to be involved- a rapist has a choice to rape.)

“not the potentially sober party taking advantage of the situation.”   What?  Why would we not put the blame on the person who has their full faculties and reasoning abilities on them and is admittedly taking advantage of someone?

I understand that there will sometimes be grey areas of consent and that a drunk person can look willing, but I think we have to make a statement as a society that drunken rape is not okay.    That if someone is not sober enough to consent, then do not have sex with them, because there is a high likelihood that they might not consent to it sober.    It seems like a pretty easy rule to follow.

@ScarletMoth@xanga - 

“Why would we not put the blame on the person who has their full faculties and reasoning abilities on them and is admittedly taking advantage of someone?”
blame all you like.  but i don’t see the point in criminal liability, or ruining a man’s life over an obviously gray area.  

I think saying “rape is NEVER your fault” still puts too much on the victim. We should instead always be saying “It is NEVER ok to force someone to have sex.” 

Ideally, when you tell people something is never acceptable, they won’t do it. But realistically, we know that not everyone cares about what is right. So advice like “don’t leave your drink unattended” and “try not to walk alone at night, regardless of what you’re wearing” are pieces of advice designed to keep people safe, and not just from rape. The problem is when people think, “well if you don’t follow that advice you deserve what you get.” That’s like saying, if you don’t get into a tornado shelter you deserve to die outside. (maybe you don’t know about the local shelters, maybe you think you’re safer somewhere else, maybe you just think the storm isn’t that bad) That’s an obviously unacceptable assumption.

You should be allowed to go outside dressed however you want, and not be forced to have sex with someone. But no matter how much we say “rape is never a good thing to do” we can’t be %100 sure it wont happen. So it’s not condoning rape to get the information out there, so at least people are aware of something that might help them.

@too_pretty_to_die@xanga - you don’t see the point in criminal liability?  It ensures that people know that if they rape someone, there is a price.

Yes, if a man rapes someone, it may ruin his life if he gets a jail sentence.   But he had a choice in whether to take advantage and rape someone, or rely on his knowledge that that is wrong, and not do it.   The woman does not have a choice in being raped- it is not her actions that cause her life to be filled with years of trauma and recovery.   There is always a price to doing criminal acts in society- there must be, in order to deter future criminals.  

If we take a firm stance in saying that date rape is absolutely not okay, then if anything less lives will be ruined (of men) because they will know that society will not allow them to get away with it.   Part of the reason it is so prevalent now is that many men realize they can date rape and get away with it- there is no grey area here, just an understanding that there is a high likelihood they will not be persecuted for their crimes.   They are taking advantage of a system that blames the victim.

@MysticalInverseDrummer@xanga - yeah, this is true!   I will say though that there is a danger in even giving potential victims advice about how to avoid rape because it leads to a false sense of safety.   Like your example of “don’t walk alone at night” -I hear this a lot and it often leads to the hand-in-hand assumption that rape is common outside by strangers- when in fact women are more likely to be raped in their own home by someone they know.   So it’s not that the advice is bad to give, per say, but I think it leads to that cultural, misleading assumption that women are always raped in dark backalleys as they walk home from something.    So personally that’s why I don’t even like telling people”safety tips to avoid rape.”

@ScarletMoth@xanga - i’m sorry, but we will have to agree to disagree.  i don’t think a man who can talk a drunk girl into sleeping with him is as much of a criminal as a man who abducts a woman off the street, ties her up, and forces her to have sex.  nor do i believe that forcing women to address their own mistakes in situations is blaming the victim.  just because you are a victim, that does not absolve you of your own responsibilities.  

@too_pretty_to_die@xanga - Yes, I guess we will have to disagree.

http://debates.juggle.com/should-date-rape-be-a-lower-offense-than-rape
Things to think about: Should date rape be a lower offense than rape?  Debate.

@too_pretty_to_die@xanga - I can see where you’re coming from, but respect doesn’t mean you have to treat someone like a saint, it just means treating them as a human being. Just because someone doesn’t respect themselves that doesn’t make it okay for you to disrespect them. I was raised to be respectful of everyone, and if someone was disrespectful towards me to just walk away and not bother with them.

Rape and respect do go hand in hand. If you rape someone you’re certainly not respecting them. Men disrespect women all the time without physically violating them. Just the things you say to someone or about someone can be disrespectful.

@ScarletMoth@xanga - date rape, in my opinion, is when one partner knowingly drugs or intoxicates his or her date in order to have sex with them.  i don’t think the term “rape” qualifies at all if one party actively got intoxicated themselves and then agreed to sex.  

@what_you_feel_is_what_you_are@xanga - 

“ If you rape someone you’re certainly not respecting them.”
true.  but if i disrespect someone, that doesn’t mean i’m going to rape them or would encourage others to rape them.  by your definition, my SO would be disrespectful of some women.  i can’t count how many times some trashy girl has come up to him in a bar, and he just calls her a slut and walks away.  but i’m not anticipating him raping anyone any time soon.  

@too_pretty_to_die@xanga - You are right, though taking advantage of a drunk girl is bad it is much different then what is typically pictured when someone mentions rape. And as ScarletMoth said, it is a huge gray area. He didn’t know she was drunk. He was drunk too.  He thought she just wanted a one night stand. So on and so forth. I do also agree with you it should not be something that ruins a man’s life as if he were a registered sex offender. More like a smack on the wrist, something like he would be required to take a women’s right’s class or can’t go to the bar on ladies night… At the very worst a restraining order to make the girl feel better. That’s the kind of thing I’d do with that if I could control what the police did.

Perhaps one day that gray area will be filled in to better protect both men and women’s rights. Police should look more into both sides of the argument whenever possible in this kind of scenario. Examples: Go to the bar and ask how much both parties had to drink. Question their friends in depth about the behavior between both parties before the act in question. But when when it comes to rape reports they tend to go by the victim’s statements alone. Sure I’ve never heard of a woman claiming rape just because she woke up and realized he was cuter with 7 shots of vodka in her system but it probably has happened and I’m sure the police don’t take that into account as much as they should sometimes.
But for now both parties need to be aware of the situation for full consent. Because like I said before having a woman claim rape when she wakes up sober can happen. Judging from the women I know the chances are low of it happening but the chances of getting attacked and raped in an alleyway are also on average low. Men need to take precautions from this happening just like women need to take precautions from being the victim of said attack. The law is not in their favor on this one so best to play it safe. That is all I’m trying to say. 

@too_pretty_to_die@xanga - even if you don’t think that is date rape… it is date rape.   It is rape.    Having sex with someone whom you know cannot consent to what they are doing is wrong.   Idk.   Again, I don’t think we’re ever going to disagree, but all I can say is that if I found out some male friend of mine, or relative of mine, or lover of mine had ever raped someone like that, I would be completely disgusted and very upset that they hadn’t been charged with a crime- because a crime, it is.

@aimeethefairy@xanga - i can agree with that.  and i think a lot of it has to do with what we have both experienced personally.  one-night stand regret is the ONLY type of rape i am personally familiar with, and one of my good guy friends almost ended up in jail because of it.  so i’m far more sympathetic to the other side.  i had a great opportunity a few years ago to screw over one of my exes in much the same fashion (we weren’t dating at the time)…. i got drunk, and i did some things i wasn’t, and am still not, proud of.  i could have had him in jail and a nice civil lawsuit.  but i had to be realistic and acknowledge my part in it as well.  in situations like that, it ALWAYS takes two to tango.  

@too_pretty_to_die@xanga -  You’re right that just because you disrespect someone doesn’t mean you’re going to rape them. I just feel that everyone still deserves respect.

@ScarletMoth@xanga - 

“Having sex with someone whom you know cannot consent to what they are doing is wrong.”
and how are men supposed to know that?  are they psychic?  as a woman, i am still very capable of making decisions while drunk.  
“I would be completely disgusted and very upset that they hadn’t been charged with a crime”
meh.  i’d be more disappointed in a female friend who thought she could go out, get wasted, dance on tables buck naked, and expect the rest of society to babysit her.  

@what_you_feel_is_what_you_are@xanga - well, there are different levels of respect.  i believe that all people deserve to be treated humanely simply because they are human.  but i doubt i’d ever be friends with someone who regularly behaved in a lascivious manner.  because the way others see you pales in importance to how you see yourself.  if you see yourself as just another party favor to be passed around, why should i tell you any different?  

@too_pretty_to_die@xanga - Yeah I’m personally not friends with any slutty/trashy girls or guys just because I don’t like what they do and I feel like I wouldn’t be able to trust them. People like that are either insecure, just looking for attention, or they do it to get whatever they want from people. Maybe a combination of all those things. People can change though, so I try not to hold anything against anyone. I don’t even waste my time telling those types of people what they are though cuz I’m sure they hear it all the time anyway.

@too_pretty_to_die@xanga -  Because anyone who has sex with drunk people is aware of the fact that the whole consent thing is part of a cultural debate, and if someone doesn’t realize that, by law, a drunk person cannot consent to sex, it doesn’t matter.   Ignorance of the law is not an excuse for violation of the law.

 I don’t think anyone expects a babysitter, they just expect not to be horribly violated and raped.   Maybe that’s just too much to expect from people, if it’s just too hard not to rape people on your saturday night.

@theflowerstem@xanga - ”Sometimes, it can be the victim’s fault.”
NO. That is bullshit. No one goes out and says to themselves “Hey, maybe if I dress like this, I can get raped today!” Your ignorant comment is the perfect example of what the author of this post is talking about. To think that anyone could be at fault for some psychopath deciding that rap is a-okay is WRONG.
And your comment about dressing as a prostitute? Even if someone IS a prostitute, that doesn’t mean they ask for or deserve any type of sexual assault.

@too_pretty_to_die@xanga - http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2011/06/01/why-wearing-mini-skirts-is-a-feminist-issue/
I only just came across this today but it is practically word for word the debate we’ve been having, except the author makes a lot of good points I would have never really thought to articulate.   But I think it very aptly explains why rape victims are not responsible (including “prevention”) for their rape

HEY! I completely agree with you. No offense, but your kind of mindset is very unrealistic. Which is really sad! I wish we could stop judging people in general, not just based upon sexual preferences. Although it would be a nice step into the future!

@ScarletMoth@xanga - i read it.  and they lost me with the whole “zomg it’s victim blaming!!” argument.  being a rape victim, or a victim of any other crime, doesn’t magically absolve you of your own mistakes and make your intentions suddenly spotless.  and just because they may not have contributed directly to the crime, that doesn’t make them any less of mistakes.  i don’t see how that is any less of a narrow-minded view of the issue than saying that women deserve it if they wear short skirts.  women are not helpless little creatures, and men are not raging rape monsters.  just because we are able to point out stupid shit women do when drunk (like dancing on tables topless, going home with strangers, having sex in the bathroom) that does NOT mean we are blaming them.  for Jesus’ sake, grow a pair.

and here’s the other problem: by your logic, my boyfriend has raped me more times than he’s had sex with me because we tend to drink a little before going at it.  so by your narrow-minded views, he’s a rapist.  so you just lost all credibility with me right there.  and to insinuate that it would be somehow true justice for me to turn the tables and one day accuse him of rape simply because i was drunk disgusts me.  

@too_pretty_to_die@xanga - your boyfriend isn’t a rapist by this logic at all, because I would assume that after dating each other there is a pattern of consent and he knows when you are “enthusiastically consenting?”   Like when you want to have sex? If your boyfriend, on the other hand, has had sex with you while you were blacking out, falling down drunk, unable to do anything other than lay there, let alone really indicate yes or no, then from an outsider perspective, yes, I would term that as “rape.”   But if you don’t agree that that’s obviously your prerogative in your private life.    You can’t just call him a rapist anytime you’re drunk and that’s not what anyone has been saying anywhere, but if he ever actually rapes you, feel free to call him a rapist.

@striemmy@xanga - that example doesn’t work because the two situations are not analagous—getting raped =/= committing crimes, not even on the same plane.

just one example of the many ridiculous comments on this post. it’s a shame that women are told they can’t dress the way they want or drink how/where they want or walk where/when they want, because some guy might rape them. how awful.

@hoodsy@xanga - Look, I’d love to have this conversation with another pompous prickface but I’ve been done with this thread for weeks. I’m going to pose this question and I have no interest in your answer because I have the liberty of logical and statistically minded thought so please don’t respond.

How many blackbelts get raped yearly?

@striemmy@xanga - you’ve been “done” with this for weeks, yet you reply? LOL, logical, indeed.

I agree with you on your main points, so I’m not really going to go over them…I’m just stopping in to mention that you can continue to listen to that Jason Derulo song without guilt, because if you look up the ACTUAL lyrics, the girl is screaming “Ohhh”, NOT “No”.

just reminds me of thelma and louise where they know that she’s going to be blamed for being raped because she was dancing with him all night…. dancing and consentual sex are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.

One of the best parts of this post is where you point out the fact that we teach girls not to get raped, but we don’t teach males not to rape.

The only blank for me here is wondering how this connects to males being raped (by a female or male) and how that ties in to identity.

@sexliesandcoffee@xanga - No.  If you intentionally choose do act in a way that everyone knows puts you at risk of being raped, you have to fucking take responsibility for taking that risk.  In those situations there are TWO people who did something wrong – both the rapist and the person who chose to open themselves up to being attacked.

There is a difference between practicing safe behavior and being attacked and intentionally opening yourself up to being attacked.
All this is a “perfect example” of is you thinking that girls should be able to do anything they want with no consequences.

@hoodsy@xanga - Why?  How is it any different than the fact that a person (regardless of gender) can’t run around drunk, go through a bad part of town at night, go to a big city alone, etc without getting robbed?

Oh, right, because your way means that girls (and only girls) can be absolved of negative consequences for their choices.

@BimmerPhile@xanga - Because a person can open themselves up to be attacked….no.

You look incredibly ignorant right now.

@BimmerPhile@xanga - LOL logic fail

It frankly amazes me that anyone could not see how rape is related to so-called  “slut shaming”.

Girls are sexualized at a very young age. I remember being 11 years old walking around in tank tops and short shorts trying to be like the popular girls at school, wanting the friends and obviously, the boys. So what if that age is about holding hands and kissing? We know by the time we get our rags, it’s all related, and we begin to grow into our sexuality before we even fully understad what it is. So I dressed like a little slut. I was an 11 year old kid. Of course I deserved to get felt up by a 42 year old family friend!

It’s getting old hearing that it could possibly, ever be the victims fault. We are human beings, going through life. This growing up. And while people grow, people do stupid shit. Everybody does, because nobody is perfect. If a girl who doesn’t get out much drinks more than she meant to and loses her friends at a party, is it her fault if the wrong person finds her? No. It’s no different if even the most arrogant, Ms. Toothpick-for-a-bedpost-it-has-so-many-notches gets raped, because she did not ask for it, and it is not anyone’s place to put her in hers by saying that she did. Karma catches up to us all in the end. If rape is a “sluts” karma, then I have to say, the karma of inflicting further pain on a rape victim by blaming them must have a lot more weight behind it than that of the big bad sin we know as having lots of sex.