Lovelyish

Well the mental health of the innocent, voiceless BABY would significantly change before and after the event of an abortion.

I think you’re asking for another abortion argument.

However, I think we’re all uniquely crazy and personal decisions should be left to the individual.

Of course it is. Children are overrated…

Yeah, your child might be the next President, Miss Anti-Abortion dumbass, but there’s a bigger chance he’ll be a drug addict, serial killer, murderer, rapist, or general waste of cells.

Most people are irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

If I had to deal with a screaming, crying, pooping baby, I would probably be suicidal.
If I got an abortion, I would go eat some ice cream and be over it by the time my bowl is empty.

I think it depends on the person. People are traumatized for any number of reasons. I’d personally be more traumatized to have a child at this point in my life; probably is why I am psychotic about contraceptives.

I think it’s fine to believe what you do on the issue because of whatever cockamamie thing you believe in, but I think it’s wrong to legislate based on that belief alone. 

Okay, I have to say it though I don’t want to reply to any specific comments…a fetus does not and can not HAVE mental health.  “Mental health” can’t really even begin until after birth (excluding the genetic factors for mental health problems present in the kid’s DNA, which are not traumatic until they manifest themselves later in life).  And obviously there can’t be mental health changes after an abortion since the fetus in question no longer exists.  I am probably wasting my breath here, but damn, come the fuck ON.

I think this is an interesting study and it would be nice if we could use data and objective things like statistics more than we do moral and religious arguments for or against abortion.  Any legislation that is based on emotion or religious belief is usually not a good idea.

@Athlyx@xanga - agreed

@Athlyx@xanga - AGREE’D! 

@DavesBride@xanga - AMEN!

Jesus. Okay, well, clearly somebody who had an actual birth has had a major life change to deal with. Someone who has had an abortion clearly just got rid of the problem, so they have had very minor changes to deal with, unless maybe now they have protected sex. Yes, they probably have conflicting feelings, but they don’t have another person to deal with. Who’s made the bigger switch? I think it’s reasonable that more new moms would be seeking help.

You know what, I am for legal abortion on the grounds of avoiding kitchen table abortions as a bigger evil. But arguments like this just make me ashamed to be a young woman.

You have to also consider that the “rate” of seeking counseling is being compared to the rate the women were at before the event. Women who know they will have an abortion are likely seeking counseling at a higher rate before the abortion. Women who give birth naturally are most likely not because they don’t expect any trauma.

Also, the conclusion does not state that “it would seem that a woman who has an early-term abortion wouldn’t
face the kind of harm to her mental health that some in the pro-life
camp would attest to” It states that the rates of post-event counseling does not support the hypothesis that women are traumatized by abortion.

This study does not prove a pro-abortion argument.

That being said, I think it is probably beneficial to the well being of some mothers (and their babies, if they survive) to have an abortion, because they will either suck at parenting or have good intentions with few resources.

I guess my argument is always, “if you don’t want the baby, why don’t you adopt?” Adoptions done at birth are not the same as foster care and thousands of good parents are hoping for a little baby of their own.

@needmoreink@xanga - People argue that the fetus has mental health? Clearly it is the mother who has mental health, pregnancy, abortion, miscarriage, or full-term. I don’t think this article or had anything to do with the fetus’ mental health.

This doesn’t really surprise me. After all, new moms are facing a bigger life change.  Why is that so surprising to people? Duh.

More new moms may need the psychiatric help, but you still have those, who’ve had abortions, seeking it too. The slight change is because of how much MORE respsonsiblity the new mom has. 

Yes, having a child is hard work and you deal with poop and crying and less sleep (there’s also, shocking I know, POSTIVE things too!). it drives me crazy how negative people are about children and then how nonchalant they are about abortion. It just, personally, pisses me off.

@MrsJenBean@xanga - I think you said it best.

@Brilliant_Innocence@xanga - Thank you. It irritated me too. Somebody says, “Oh this study says it’s haaarrrrrd to be a mom, abortions are better than babies!”. Like I said, I support legal abortion because it’s better than coat hanger abortions. I get so tired of the any-excuse-will-do justifications.

When my best friend had an abortion, they made her do counseling BEFOREHAND to make sure it was the right decision she was making for herself.
Just saying, since the rate of seeking counseling AFTERWARD is compared to the rate of counseling sought BEFORE.
You have to look hard at the facts.

& My older sister also had an abortion at age 19, she is now 24 and still is traumatized by it. She cries whenever she talks about it & always says she made a mistake.

@Brilliant_Innocence@xanga - “it drives me crazy how negative people are about children and then how nonchalant they are about abortion.” THIS. i can’t believe some the comments people make about children/having children. smh. 

@LupusInvictus@xanga - I was referring to the first comment on this post.  The post itself did not reference that at all.

@DavesBride@xanga - The fetus’s brain doesn’t begin charting activity until after about the five month mark [an event they call "quickening"], a point after which most U.S. abortions are illegal.  So…mental health? None to be spoken of really.

That’s what the study says, but if you’ve known anyone who has personally gone through an abortion, willingly or not, it affects them mentally.  You have to keep into account how many women DON’T seek “mental help” for their decisions.  Just like unemployment or any other statistic in a study, you are only getting the REPORTED numbers.  Besides, guilt isn’t something that a lot of women consider something to seek help for.  Apathy is also something that a lot of women won’t consider something to seek help for.  Also, a lot of women can’t afford professional help for their emotional/mental issues, and deal with them on their own. 

I have not had an abortion, but I have known women who have, and some of them regret their decision on a daily basis.  Others could care less.  It affects different women in different ways.  It also depends on the REASON for the abortion or the reason for child birth.  Some women use abortion as a form of birth control.  Some women choose abortion because they see no other option.  Some women have children because they are happy and want to complete a family.  Some women have their children for the simple fact that they don’t believe in abortion.  You never know.  Everyone is different and reacts to certain events differently.

To say that either one is less traumatic than the other is silly.  I believe in a woman’s right to choose, regardless of my personal beliefs on abortion.  It is her body and mind, and it’s not my place to tell someone else what to do with themselves. Studies are just generalizations paired with a number.

Why is this an argument. Unless your religious you have no real basis for saying a fetus is alive. It’s a sack of cells with chemical reactions going on in it. You can decide for yourself when you consider it “alive” since there’s no definition. There’s very little proof it’s from conception. 

@MochaMoose230@xanga - Same.

that’s a bit stupid to say “The study found that women who had an abortion sought
psychiatric treatment at roughly the same rate before and after that
event, while the incidence with which women who gave birth sought counseling increased dramatically after having a baby.”

Why would the average pregnant woman need counselling before giving birth? I understand it’s difficult for some women but most just get on with it.. so surely this makes no case for the argument…

I think it’s ironic that killing a baby is less traumatic than giving birth to a new life. I wonder why… To me it does not matter when the mother and the doctor abort the baby, they are still aborting a baby.

It’s never the baby’s fault for being born. Why punish the baby just for existing?

Is it anybody’s fault on this planet for being born?

Just be lucky you are alive.

I know some women have every good reason to have an abortion but I have a hard time believing that an abortion is less traumatic then having a child. I had a baby three weeks ago and yes it’s hard and sometimes overwhelming but then I look at my beautiful little girl and I know it’s very worth it. I’ve known women who’s had abortions and they all regret it they don’t know if they made the right decision I think they are more traumatized then I am.

First of all, why is this post on lovelyish? Last I checked lovelyish was not politicalish. Secondly, I don’t think anyone has ever protested that pregnancy is hard on a woman, physically and psychologically. Abortion is a pretty minor procedure, relatively speaking. Pregnancy is… not even close.

But hey, I guess the unborn helpless human-to-be doesn’t matter in this discussion. So i won’t even bother starting it.

@K1SS_M3_HARD3R@xanga - Congrats.

@stuipdthing@xanga - You could say the same thing about people. All of our feelings, pain and otherwise are just “cells with chemicals” interacting. It amazes me how people who are so empathetic to everything else are so heartless to unborn humans. And for the record, I’m an Atheist.

@MochaMoose230@xanga - Or you could give the baby up for adoption, and then go eat ice cream and not live with the guilt of paying someone to kill a potential life.

@MoonFaeEyryan@xanga - It is irrelevant what the baby will become. We do not have the right to kill it, barring extreme extraneous circumstances. 

@millionofstars@xanga - Totally agree.

 I’d never put it all into perspective until I actually met a couple a couple of abortion survivors who’s parents didn’t want them. One guy I met said his mother was raped and he was supposed to be aborted since his father was the rapist. Having people in front of you who had gotten the chance to live despite their parents’ wishes, really changes the way you feel about the countless lives that don’t have the choice or the voice.  I heard one girl say, “pro-choice? what about my choice, and my right to live? they were going to take that away from me”. Its inspiring though, its like they are determined to be heard now.

Adoption is acceptable in society. If the mom cannot take care of the baby (for whatever reason) then find a loving family for your baby to be a part of. There is no guilt for the mom to shoulder, nor will there be any regrets. This way the baby can live to grow up in a healthy way. The mom can get on with her life, and maybe someday both the child and the mom can reunite.

There are options for mothers. None which should include abortion.

@OstentatiousEloquence@xanga - Just going through the 9 months of hell that it takes to create a baby would do me in though. No thanks.

@CoolKidsHaveEatingDisorders@xanga -  You don’t have to love babies or want them yourself, but you also don’t have to be negative about them.  That’s what I was I getting at. 

Yes, babies cry. Yes, babies poop. Yes, babies spit up. Yes, pregnancy can be hard. Yes, not getting the same amount of sleep for a while can be hard.  Get over it. It’s not all as dramatically awful as people make it out to be. They are babies. Human Lives. They’re not just pooping, crying, spit up machines that are a complete inconvenience. That disgusts me.  And then to further be so nonchalant about abortion…

I have never ever doubted in my mind that if I get pregnant at this age, it’s getting aborted. Sorry cluster of cells, no hard feelings.
I don’t know if this study really proves any scientific point because the criteria of being “traumatized” is completely subjective. Now, if said person’s behaviors changed significantly after either event, you may say that has some kind of effect, but “traumatized” is subjective criteria which cannot be accurately defined across all participants. Some participants, lets say… Sammi Sweetheart of Jersey Shore, would be traumatized by the fact that their boyfriend wants to talk to another girl. Some people are traumatized by war.  Some people have seen it all and are bad-ass-motherfuckin’ untraumatizable. So this subjective criterion completely throws said scientific study out the window, further proving that cognitive psychology is pseudoscience.

@MochaMoose230@xanga - Well, at least you have your priorities straight. Let’s hope the first one is a regimen of birth control.

LMFAO umm i think these statistics are ridiculous. Of course they would be more likely to seek therapy after the baby is born, babies are stressful & between hormones/PPD, some women can have a really hard time with it. It’s something pretty much every woman goes through when she has a baby. But after an abortion people just forget & move on. 

To state this clearly, abortion is a horror. It’s a deliberate murder of a human being regardless of the reason.

This study is a bunch of hoopla. Correlation does not prove causation, and there’s nothing here but correlation and even that is flimsy. But I guess these “scientists” did what they set out to do when they gave the abortionists another platform to crow from.

Sometimes I wonder if people who believe abortions are so great would feel the same way if we did it like the Romans and after delivering a healthy boy or girl we carefully carried it to the village square and left it by the well to be killed by exposure, or torn to pieces by packs of dogs.

Selfish heartlessness runs rampant in humanity. Infanticide and abortions are just one more horrible face of that. It’s wrong, it’s disgusting, and there is no excuse. There isn’t an argument that addresses how abortion removes a human being from this world. Just arguments about a)whether it’s an appropriate situation to do so or b)if it’s “technically” a human being yet, side stepping the nature of development. A whale fetus doesn’t magically become a chicken, a human fetus doesn’t magically stop or start being human either.

Yet so many of the very same abortion supporters are HORRIFIED by the thought of poor little kitties and puppies being euthanized in shelters because of over-crowding. Or they’re vegetarians who don’t want to harm any living thing.

….

Oh, and those of you very well intentioned people who think that legalized abortion stops the horrors of the back alley variety, read this:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/01/19/philadelphia-abortion-doctor-charged-counts-murder/

This world is a very dark and disgusting place on it’s own. I’m amazed by those who choose to add to the darkness.

@SUPletstake___surveys@xanga -  @LupusInvictus@xanga -  @sassij - I think the thing people are ignoring here is that the BEFORE-abortion/birth counseling time period that they’re measuring from is 9 months. That means it’s illogical to say “Well of course they started counseling before they had the abortion, and continued after, so there’s no change”. But we’re looking at a period of 9 months. You don’t HAVE 9 months to decide if you’re going to get an abortion, so if you’re counting 9 months before the abortion occurred, you’re likely looking at 7 or 8 months of the woman having no idea she was pregnant, or going to have an abortion. So to say that the rate before and the rate after didn’t change is probably more likely to indicate that either she was seeking help all along for issues completely unrelated to the abortion, and then continued to, or that she wasn’t seeking help at all, and didn’t see a need to after the abortion. 

And to whoever used the term, I sincerely believe that there is no such thing as a “pro-abortion” movement.

@Brilliant_Innocence@xanga - Okay, I find this a little rude. I didn’t even comment anything about children, but frankly, I never want them either. And I don’t think I have to “get over” the fact that I don’t want them. Good for you that you see children as being worth the inconvenience/stress/pain/difficulty/whatever else. Some of us don’t. So why in the hell would you want us to “get over it” and be parents anyway? It’s clear that we don’t want to, and if we don’t want to, we probably shouldn’t. 

@CoolKidsHaveEatingDisorders@xanga - You’re right, you don’t have to “get over” it. I wasn’t trying to say that you had to like kids and I was speaking more in general. If you don’t want kids, that’s up to you. Sorry. I just get frustrated by how negative people can be. That’s all. And I still believe that children are only an inconvenience to those who are too self absorbed to want to deal with them. 

@Lost_In_Reverie@xanga -  Bad choice of words, sorry. I was just speaking in general and it was something that frustrated me. Sorry. I didn’t mean to offend anyone.

I’d also like to add, that if you didn’t comment negatively about children… I’m not really talking about or to you. I mean, I know people who don’t want kids, for whatever reason, but they are also not making rude comments about children or being all that negative. That’s specifically what I was talking about.

@CoolKidsHaveEatingDisorders@xanga -  Well, excuse me. I do realize this is not some fairy tale land.  I do realize that not everyone can realistically take care of a child, financially or otherwise. I get that.  Good Lord. All I was talking about was the incredible negtivity by two commenters here and how nonchalant they are about abortion.  It saddens me.  I’m not realistically in a position to have another chlld, but If I’m putting myself in a position where It could happen, I sure as heck wouldn’t be skipping down to the abortion clinic acting all cavalier about it.  I don’t even know why I bother trying to explain what I’m trying to say. Clearly, no one gets it.  

@OstentatiousEloquence@xanga - I’ve been on a generic Seasonique for five years and my boyfriend & I use a condom every time. Glad you’re concerned. 

@CoolKidsHaveEatingDisorders@xanga -  Yeah, you got one thing right. It most certainly isn’t the babies fault! lol

I know it sounds crazy to some of these crazy pro-lifers, but have you ever thought that some women don’t have ANY feelings after having an abortion, guilt included?! Because I mean really, if you’re having an abortion, I doubt you believe bullshit life beings at conception, so why would you feel guilty about having a parasite removed from your body? Yeah, I’m sure some women go on zoloft and never look back, but I’d say a good chunk of them just..go on with their life.

Also, I love that this debate is going on because…last time I checked…abortion is legal in all 50 states, AND canada! So why are we debating this hoopla? It’s legal – DEAL WITH IT.

Well, I would think that this might have something to do with the bodily changes as well. A lot of women suffer mental disorders because they’re physical appearances change dramatically.

This doesn’t surprise me at all based on the girls I know who’ve had abortions but I find it sad that someone needed to make this into a study to go against an argument that I’ve yet to see a study supporting. I’m not for abortions but am pro-choice because legal abortions are safer than the old illegal abortions. Glad to know that I’m not promoting endangering someone’s mental health by doing so…not that I ever believed that argument anyway.

@MrsJenBean@xanga - I don’t think that was the point she was trying to make. Many times in the abortion debate, pro-lifers will say that abortions are very traumatizing on the woman and should be avoided to protect her mental health at least. It is an argument used to say that abortions should be legal. I think the study just means to say that it isn’t necessarily traumatizing and that many go through it without mental health issues and that becoming a mother doesn’t mean you won’t go through mental health issues. You pointed out the reasons why this would happen but it doesn’t nullify the study or this post. Or at least, that’s what I got out of it.

@OstentatiousEloquence@xanga - Really? It’s one of the main arguments I hear all the time and always have since I first learned about abortion. I think I’d like to live where you do…I wouldn’t want to pull my hair out every time the topic is brought up. It is important because there are people who really believe that abortion affects the person’s mental health very negatively, even if they know someone who had one without issues mentally or physically.

Plus I like that Lovelyish puts up some posts that are relevant like this. It still has to do with women and we don’t really have a politics ish site anymore. It rounds out the topics a bit more and appeals to more readers if they put up some content that isn’t based around beauty and instead gets us talking.

i think it’s mostly because of kids, not necessarily the childbirth….

@Athlyx@xanga - this girl.  i’m with her.

Interesting that people are judging this study by personal experience. Congratulations, you’ve just failed at the scientific method, let alone objectivity in general.

This is something I’ve always known, but no one had the balls to say. How would living everyday being a parent who wasn’t ready not be traumatic? Either way it’s a hard decision but wouldn’t it be way worse on someone who decided to go through with the pregnancy unwillingly or unprepared? To me it should be up to the woman and what she thinks is right for her.

@rafi09@xanga - I just don’t see the point in organizing subsites off of xanga like this if the topics of the posts are going to go completely off topic. Don’t care enough to debate about it though.

Anyone who believes abortion is some crazy surgery that has lasting consequences is probably fed a spoonful too much of propaganda. But I don’t think the affect on the MOTHER should be the point of the debate. That’s selfish because it’s disregarding the helpless, innately innocent unborn child.

“So it would seem that a woman who has an early-term abortion wouldn’t face the kind of harm to her mental health that some in the pro-life camp would attest to.”

I think that statement is a bit of a stretch based on this one rather flimsy study. As a few have said before me, correlation does not equal causation. There are many other factors at play here that people should consider before assuming that women who get abortions are not traumatized. It’s possible that many of the women having abortions were younger than their birthing counterparts, or less financially stable. Maybe they had less access to psychiatric treatment. Seeking out therapy is just one aspect of trauma – and I don’t know any good scientist who would think that looking at how many people seek therapy is a good indicator of how many people are actually suffering depression, anxiety, etc. 

Regardless, even if true, I don’t think this will sway the pro-life side very much anyway. I think they are less concerned with the mental health of the mother and more concerned with the life of the fetus. So yeah, this point is pretty much moot. 

With the amount of postpardom depression, I’m hardly surprised by these statistics.  I’m more surprised by the idea that someone would actually try to use the mother’s mental health in an arguement against abortion.  

I hate getting into this debate, but I just don’t agree with abortion and I probably never will.  And as long as people have such strong opinions about this subject, the world will never be able to look at abortion objectively.  

First I just want to say I am a girl and I got pregnant when I was 18. So I have gave birth, thanks.

Abortions are so sick and wrong in every way possible. Why would you get a vacuum stuck up your vagina just to kill an innocent baby? Even if your ungrateful ass isn’t willing to pay the consequences of your actions, because even if you were on birth control condom broke blah blah blah getting pregnant is one of the risks that comes with having sex, someone else who CAN’T have children would gladly take it, even pay you for it. Clearly I gave women too much credit and they are mostly a bunch of heartless bitches.
It makes me so fucking sick over 365,550 babies died in one country in those years.
How the fuck is it called pro choice when that voiceless baby has no choice what so ever, and never will get a chance to make a choice?
People can murder, rape, and child molest and often walk the streets again, but any irresponsible selfish bitch can walk in and kill a baby.
If you were raped, its a little different, but its still a baby and the fact people have it in them to kill it is insane. Its not the babies fault. Its NEVER the babies fault. Babies don’t make people have sex!

@DavesBride@xanga - A clump of cells doesn’t have a VOICE.
@OstentatiousEloquence@xanga - There is a reason women are allowed to abort within the first few weeks, that is because it is NOT a baby yet. It’s just a clump of cells. If you’re really that ‘sympathetic’ for a bunch of cells then I suggest you stop eating meat and stop walking on grass cus god forbid you should hurt ANY living being/thing/cells, right? Exactly. Or are humans the only ‘cells’ on this planet we should be sympathetic to? You said it yourself, it’s a ‘helpless-human-TO-BE‘, it’s not a human yet, therefore you’re aborting CELLS not a human. If you’re not allowed to ‘meddle’ with nature then you might as well argue you can’t have sex with a condom because those are a bunch of ‘helpless-human-to-be-cells’ you throw away with the condom in the trash after fucking yah know!

As for this post, I don’t really think this should matter if you decide to have a baby or not. What should matter is your financial and just in general personal situation. I wouldn’t abort just because it is less traumatic for me in the long run. I however would abort if I weren’t ready for the baby. Abortion should only happen if you can’t afford a baby, you aren’t ready for it or if you got raped, something along those lines. Not because it’s less traumatic, I think it’s pretty obvious your life is going to change BIG time after having a baby compared to having an abortion and continuing your life as it always has been.

I think its obvious that the women who HAD the baby would need more counseling afterwards, everything changes. If a woman had an abortion, they go back to the life they know how to handle. So of course new mothers, taking on a HUGE new challenge, would look for more counseling.

it seems like a moot point to me.

@dizzydizzydumdum541@xanga - Well said.

@novalidation@xanga - Look, you’re mostly right. Though from my knowledge, I don’t think it’s ever been established conclusively when (and IF) embryos or even fetuses can feel pain. And I personally think that’s reason enough to not kill them.

Giving birth is the closest a woman comes to death. Of course its going to be traumatic, perhaps one of the most traumatic things a woman will ever have to go through. 

You say so maybe she won’t face harm to her mental health like pro-life attests to? That could only be proven true if you tested every single last woman having one. Abortion is for some people and it isn’t for others. Some are going to be distressed, and some aren’t. Same applies to giving birth. Studies aren’t going to prove anything when it comes around time for you to either have an abortion or give birth and you’re traumatized. I think this post was stupid and pointless. You taught me nothing else than the posts on lovelyish are stupid and not worth any of my time.

@OstentatiousEloquence@xanga - I didn’t even consider that but you are right about that. Even if they did a “study” on whether or not it felt pain they wouldn’t know, its like death, you don’t know what happens after death because you just don’t, just like you don’t know how it feels to die as a fetus because you just don’t.
Not to mention you can get abortions prettttty far along in most places.

noted.  However I think my concious would eat at me for the rest of my life for killing my unborn child.  Having a baby does have its downsides, but the positive things that come from becoming a mother are greater than any negative.  I could never imagine looking into my childs eyes and thinking wow i wish i had that abortion.  I would wonder for the rest of my life who i killed and what could have been for that child and my own life.  Of course having children is a huge potentially very scary thing and someone unprepaired for the event would have a hard time with it.  Having to suddenly provide and raise another human being that completely depends on you for everything is a huge undertaking.  But on the other hand so is killing that other human being that was half of you and living attempting to live with that decision for the rest of your life.  Adoption really is better there are plenty of people looking for babies who either can have children or dont want to create their own.  Its the older children that are harder to find homes for.  I plan once my own children are grown to foster children of all ages.  Im going to become a midwife and childrens welfare is my passion.

Abortions in many cases probably do have traumatic effects on different women, but I really believe in the results of any “study” that argues that childbirth is more stressful and traumatic (for various reasons that people here have already covered in their comments.)

@dizzydizzydumdum541@xanga - It is playing God, as far as I’m concerned. (Whether or not God exists is irrelevant; we are speaking of ‘God’ as a hypothetical omnipotent presence) we are nowhere near having that right/authority. The fact that we can’t even do a simple thing as conclusively predicting pain threshold/existence proves that. Animals have MORE of a right to kill things because they don’t know that they don’t know better. (And by thing, I include cells forming into embryos growing into fetuses eventually being born as humans.)

@ThA_sLo_1@xanga - 
This. People are always shocked when I tell them that a fetus seems like more of a parasite than a human being to me. There was a time when I was convinced that I was pregnant, and I was a total emotional wreck. I cried myself to sleep almost every night and couldn’t focus during the day to save my life. Honestly, just thinking about going through with an abortion helped put my mind at ease.

Here’s something to ponder…if you were in a burning building with a two-year-old child and a fertilized egg from an IVF procedure and you only had time to save one, which one would you save? I mean, life DOES begin at conception, right…?

this breaks my heart… truly. lies are all over this and it only leads to more death.

1. just because a study supposedly indicates something, does NOT make it true. so much needs to be questioned about the credibility of the source of the study, how it was does done, etc etc etc and even then, it still might not even be legit.

2. the author of this post makes a HUGE jump to a conclusion that has no basis according to the supposedly valid research. there are so many other factors, which some of the other responders are quick to point out, that go into women seeking counseling.

3. there is obviously a huge bias here, which clouds judgement. many people reading this will enter into the conversation with minds already made up on the matter, and then look for reasons to support their claim. while i only hold a bachelors in psychology, i admit that i was very biased in my own research. whenever i conducted research, i formed my hypotheses according to what i thought was correct, and would even try to interpret my own results so that i wouldn’t have to admit that i was wrong. pride gets in the way of a lot. what we ought to do when seeking truth, especially in the sciences, is get beyond ourselves in order to uncover truth and realize that it’s for the benefit of all.

4. i had something else i wanted to say before my next point, but i forgot it…

5. just because a study says x or y… it doesn’t change the reality that abortion is wrong. period. morality is objective and absolute. right and wrong is not up for the individual person to decide, as each person has dignity and worth, deserving love and respect. we as human beings do not choose to be born and we do not have the right to choose to die nor the right to choose death for another.

6. you are all in my prayers. we’re all wounded. we fool ourselves into believing that things like abortion, contraception, pre- and extra-marital sex, food, money, power, control, alcohol, etc will fix us and make us happy… in reality, they only numb us, make us ignore the problems so we don’t have to deal with the real stuff. i promise… there is a better way…

I’m pretty sure it’s not the actual child birth that would cause someone to need counseling. It would be raising a child for the first time. Either way it is difficult but at least when you have the child people don’t call you really horrible names, and you don’t feel like complete shit when you see others with babies. This study is a total crock. 

Best comment ever @MoonFaeEyryan@xanga - 

The woman’s psychological trauma is not the point.

If it were actually the case that sacrificing babies on an Incan pyramid caused rain to fall on certain fields, would that make human sacrifice any more morally acceptable?

BS to that.

@MrsJenBean@xanga - I completely agree… What happened to the view that life is precious anyway? Everyone just seems so selfish about not wanting a big change for them self…

Of course having a child is going to be a bigger life change than aborting in the first trimester. According to this study we shouldn’t have any children just on the basis that it could be bad for our mental health. Really? Child birth is something that we have been performing as long as humanity has existed. Raising children can be just as stressful/traumatic as the childbirth itself. Should we stop raising children? And another thing, a lot of people experience trauma and keep their mental health intact. Isn’t that what we should focus on in society? How we can prevent mental breakdowns from normal things like childbirth and raising children? Even a psychologist will tell you that it is probably mentally unhealthy to avoid the REAL cause of the trauma instead of dealing with it. Life is precious. Why do we so easily CHOOSE to throw it away? Because we don’t want the responsibility? Just because I can?  Are we really that selfish? What ever happened to putting children up for adoption? I’m pretty sure that’s still an option. So why do we support abortion when there are better alternatives? Of course childbirth is an experience like none other in your life, but that doesn’t always mean that it will be 100% traumatic. Nor does that mean that we should avoid it. Mental health? That’s something that is not only treatable but preventable. If we don’t realize that, in the end it only hurts yourself.

@Brilliant_Innocence@xanga -   I get what you’re trying to say, and I agree.  Whether you’re against abortion or not, being so nonchalant and negative about human life is pretty heartless.

Scanning the above comments, I think that if a reader has a case to make against abortion, they should write a full blown post.  Lay out your arguments and let people comment.  

This post, was simply a reporting of a not so irrelevant issue — but a small single issue — surrounding the abortion debate.  It is true that pro-lifers have made the case that abortion will result in trauma for woman that has it. The post reported on a  very large study (albeit in a country with a far different political climate) that quashes that assertion.

For a larger discussion of the other issues…like I said…right a post. I have written several full length posts on the topic, because the issue is so “big”  a single post cannot do it justice.

weird.

I personally think the fact that I terminated the life of a child would bother me more than physically having a child would, but maybe that’s just me.

People who are pro-life tend to think more about the baby than the mother, so this really solves nothing, unfortunately.
But I agree with you. 

Judging by your tone at the end, I’m thinking you knew that the results of this study would be obvious.

It is truly disgusting how so many of the young women who have commented here are so dismissive of human life.

I would really like to see how many of you ladies would feel if that little fetus, in whatever stage it is aborted, was visible to you in your cupped hands. Let’s see how many of you could bring yourself to kill it then. For any of you to think it’s not murder, I feel so sorry for you. What will be your excuse before God? “Sorry, I had college to attend, that baby had to go!”

Absolutely pathetic.

@Weya@xanga - Shouldn’t they be equally important? What is this, 3rd grade playground rights? “I was here first, take a hike!” Give me a break.

@dizzydizzydumdum541@xanga - oh my… and the mother shouldn’t get a choice either in your eyes…

Either way YOU look at it you are taking a choice away from someone…

Me, I chose to give that choice to the person who is acting like an incubator for 9 months….
but again, forgive me for thinking women own their private parts….. here… maybe you should dictate the type of birth control I go on as well, or perhaps how many children I shall have in the future :)

@Akazato - how about you take religion out of the debate. It is neither scientific nor relevant as it should not cloud your judgement..

As I stated to another commenter:

“oh my… and the mother shouldn’t get a choice either in your eyes…

Either way YOU look at it you are taking a choice away from someone…

Me, I chose to give that choice to the person who is acting like an incubator for 9 months….
but again, forgive me for thinking women own their private parts….. here… maybe you should dictate the type of birth control I go on as well, or perhaps how many children I shall have in the future :) “

To author: The majority of this site is Americans=conservative, christian, backwards nuts (those who follow this of course, not all americans) so you can expect a “no abortion” response from such close minded individuals…….

@petiteme_x@xanga - So because I have a religion, I’m not allowed to participate in debates or have an opinion on political matters and human rights? Wow, so you’re taking my choice away! My fingers are mine to type with, my mind is mine too…so aren’t I in control of my own life and can’t I make my own decisions, young lady?

So in your little messed up head, it’s OK to give a woman the right to make the choice to MURDER her unborn child, but it’s not OK for me to make the choice to respond to something with my own opinions. And suddenly it’s a problem where I get my opinions from, but wherever you get yours from it’s OK? Wow.

And you’re also taking away my right to choose to practice my religion now? I’m not allowed to ever mention my religion because it’s irrelevant to you? LOL.

Pathetic.

If you actually took time to LEARN and EDUCATE yourself about the thing you are so ignorantly against, you wouldn’t be throwing ignorant claims at me that my religion has no scientific backing. I’m guessing you probably don’t even realise Israel is a real place and that many of the places recorded in the Bible are still in existence today, with physical, scientific proof to back up the events. You young people these days are so stuck on stupid, focused on Facebook and murdering your own inconvenient children…

Whatever happened to that common anthem so long ago it seems…something along the lines of “children are our future.” Oops, guess I’m a little outdated here…what’s that changed to?

Have you young women never even taken the time to hear the other side of this? You’ve never even seen a youtube video of someone who was supposed to be aborted but wasn’t? These people who make it through abortions, or somehow end up given the chance to live, they are THRILLED to be alive, they are thankful that they weren’t terminated like an unwanted tumor. They speak out against abortion, and I am 100% certain, there’s not a single one of those people out there proclaiming “Why, oh why didn’t they just kill me? Please, mother’s, abort your babies! I was given life but I should’ve been aborted instead!” These people are the voices of all those little unborn babies that cannot speak for themselves.

How can you all not appreciate life? It is so sad how you all can only appreciate ‘convenient’ life.

Again, PATHETIC.

If any of you are actually interested in hearing one of these abortion survivors, watch this YouTube video and see the other side for yourself. Or choose to stay drenched in ignorance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPF1FhCMPuQ&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xpyl8w86ULs

I’m guessing not a single one of you will actually watch those videos. Let me insert my *big eye roll* here. Hopefully there are at least some of you who can break through that apathy and actually give these people a chance to be heard.

@CoolKidsHaveEatingDisorders@xanga - Hello, young lady who believes in murdering the unborn. God gave you that butt. If it’s fat, that’s your own fault. Exercise. All jokes aside, you are a FOOL to not believe in God. You can simply look around and realize there is a Divine Creator, a God who made up your intricate body.

Psalm 19 – The heavens declare the glory of God;
   the skies proclaim the work of his hands.
Look how perfectly this Bible verse fits you:

Psalm 53:1 – The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, and their ways are vile; there is no one who does good.

God also gave you the right to make your own choices. But you are making all the choices to send yourself straight to hell. And I’m sure you don’t believe in hell and that is just sad.

Have you ever heard of near death experiences? I’m sure you have. Do you think these people make up or hallucinate while their heart has stopped beating? People who are claimed dead by medical doctors and who regain a heartbeat and breath tell how they’ve visited heaven AND hell. Google it for yourself.

A Doctor’s Testimony
“Each time he regained heartbeat and respiration, the patient screamed, “I am in hell!” He was terrified and pleaded with me to help him. I was scared to death…Then I noticed a genuinely alarmed look on his face. He had a terrified look worse than the expression seen in death! This patient had a grotesque grimace expressing sheer horror! His pupils were dilated, and he was perspiring and trembling – he looked as if his hair was “on end.”

Emergency Room
A respiratory nurse who works in an emergency room told me about a patient who had gone “code red” – he flat lined. She and some other medical personnel rushed over with the defibrillator to try and bring him back to life. They applied the paddles and revived him. She said that he started screaming and shouting “the heat, the heat!” then his heart stopped again. They brought him back a second time. He shouted “The flames, the flames!” They lost him again. Four times the man flat lined and was brought back, each time shouting about the heat or the flames. After the last time, he died and they could not bring him back. She said all the doctors and nurses just stood there for a few minutes and stared at the body. They all knew that man went to hell. – Mark Cahill – Book: One Heartbeat Away – markcahill.org

- Dr. Maurice Rawlings Specialist on Internal Medicine
I would have loved to have been somewhere with a little red devil with a pitchfork poking me. It would have been a relief to have had physical pain, and if there was fire there would have been light. Anything to break the darkness, but this place was totally void of God. This was the pit that Jesus spoke of which is on the other side of God’s all consuming lake of fire.
-David A. Smith’s personal near death experience.

Surgical Nurse
“You’re the gutsy one who talks about negative near-death experiences. Keep doing it. Don’t stop.” I was so startled by her comment, I momentarily slowed my pace and yelled back, “Who are you? What do you mean by that?” Her answer surprised me. “I’m a surgical nurse at a hospital in Phoenix, Arizona. We have lots of near-death cases there, and almost all of them are the negative kind. You know what I mean people who wind up in hell!”

- P.M.H.Atwater, L.H.D., Ph.D – (92 Journal of Near-Death Studies Vol.10, No.3)

But I’m sure you think all these people are either crazy or lying. Hopefully you’ll turn to Jesus eventually or you’ll end up in hell, away from the God you want to ‘kiss your fat ass.’ Honey, you are just ASKING for it.

You unbelievers blow my mind. Jesus is real and alive, offering you unconditional, awesome love. That love is there just waiting for you and you all just reject it, spit in His face. The kind of love you can’t even get from a mother, a love infinitely greater and all-consuming. What, that’s not good enough for you? That’s not appealing in the slightest? Ridiculous, senseless heathens.

You need to realise your place in this world, created by Jesus Christ, your Lord and Savior. You are not your own. You need to bow down and acknowledge the King of Kings, and accept his gracious, powerful love. Repent and keep yourself out of hell.

@AKAZAT0 - Didn’t bother to read your comment=too long

I’m guessing it’s about trying to convert me to your ridiculous ways.

Keep praying to your God up above then, eventually religion shall be squashed.

LOL and last time I checked it wasn’t your place to judge and you’re supposed to be treating others the way you want to be treated. You also shouldn’t be stepping over homeless people on the streets, should be offering everyone else everything that you have and shouldn’t be thinking about anything else than God…. lol. yup Christianity=hypocrites who pick and choose.

@OstentatiousEloquence@xanga - What you’re forgetting is that I also have a right. It’s not all about the “unborn helpless fetus”. When a woman gets pregnant there isn’t some moral law that her life must revolve around her potential child.  

I have gone through the ordeal of making the decision to to have an abortion then going through with the actual procedure. And I will tell you that there are times where I question if I made the right choice. And then there are other times that I think of all the wonderful things I will have in my future because of the abortion. Yes it was traumatizing, but in a different way than childbirth. When you have a baby it is a huge and publicized life change. An abortion is the same huge change, except you’re dealing with it on your own with your few loved ones.  I made the choice for myself. Not to kill an unborn child, but to give myself the best chance at a happy future. 

@AKAZAT0 - I’d like to take the time to tell you that I hate you for saying this: 

“So in your little messed up head, it’s OK to give a woman the right to make the choice to MURDER her unborn child”
I’m religious. I had an abortion. 
It’s a personal choice and for you to parade religion around to justify your opinion that abortion is wrong is disgusting. You are yet another extremist, bible thumper who is taking your religion and shoving it down young girls throats to try to change their minds about the hardest decision they will have to make. People like you make me hate being a Christian. 

@asdfghjkl0165@xanga - Yeah. You have a right to prevent yourself from getting pregnant. You made the choice to have sex, so YOU should reep the consequences. I never said your life was to revolve around the unborn child. It was YOU who created it, so until it is born it will be stuck inside you and it is your moral obligation to not hurt it. When it’s born, you can get rid of it. Go to the nearest church and drop it off, even. period.

 i’m not entirely sure how I feel about this idea. Having been through two of them, and one natural birth, I’m inclined to say that I think they are both equally as stressful. I mean in terms of an abortion, many women seek council/pychiatric help out of guilt for having killed a child. As for child birth, yeah its stressfull, think of all the changes that are occuring in the body all of which happens in a matter of minutes! (and some of them rather painful!!!). Also, there are some women who suffer from post partum depression some much much worse than others.

Having been in both positions, I can’t really say that one may/may not be more stressful on a person’s mental health. At the end of the day however, it all boils down to one thing, if the woman is strong enough to be able to handle it or not? Children and child birth aren’t for everyone anymore than abortion is. Bottom Line.

This is comparing apples to oranges.

@stuipdthing@xanga - I can see an embryo being a ‘bunch’ on cells, but a fetus has all human characteristics at a tinier level (scientifically…). Every living thing on the planet is a ‘bunch of cells’…

@petiteme_x@xanga - To degrade a pregnant woman as, “acting like an incubator for 9 months” is just horrible. I’m sorry, but I’m not just warming something up, I am creating LIFE, I’m creating another human being. Woman have been depicted as goddesses and worshipped for their fertility and you are comparing them to incubators?!  And saying that religion should not ‘cloud our judgement’ is like saying, ‘by the way, any moral and ethical principles you have shouldn’t dictate how you made decisions’. What kind of world would this be if we all thought that way?

Of course women who give birth are going to be more ‘traumatized’, especially if they do it naturally, The hormones and oxytocin have incredible effects on the mind and body of a woman, the hormones and pheromones created once breastfeeding has been initiated are measureable. Trauma isn’t the right word here, it doesn’t say trauma in the quote anyway. The phrase should be mentally overwhelmed for both parties.

Crazy world we live in…